Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE International Monetary Fund Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Postby nth » Fri 08 Apr 2005, 18:46:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bobbyald', 'I') did a quick survey in my office (in the UK where we currently pay about $7.50 per gallon) and no one said they would give up their car at $34 gallon. They would reduce usage, be more selective in their journeys and car share but would NOT lose their car - interesting don't you think?


At $34?
wow, are they rich?
User avatar
nth
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2005, 04:00:00

Postby bobbyald » Fri 08 Apr 2005, 19:04:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')ow, are they rich?


No, far from it and that's the problem of course.
If people wont give up their cars even when it begins to hurt we are in for one hell of a jump in prices.

In Europe even at $34 gallon if people cut consumption by 50% then their cost has "only" doubled and people will do this rather than give up their car.

I'm not saying that this will actually happen (at least not yet) but do you see the problem?

In the US a $1 gallon increase is regarded as disaster. Europeans would take a $1 increase without a second thought. The US may be wealthy but it has an economy that is tuned for cheap oil. Europes economy is tuned for expensive oil and will therefore cope better with higher prices.
Life results from the non-random selection of randomly generated replicators
User avatar
bobbyald
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue 18 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Location: London, UK.

Postby No-Oil » Sun 10 Apr 2005, 18:05:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aahala', 'N')o Oil

You may be right, but nowhere in the linked article is the word "light" or
"heavy" is used.

At the end of the article, there are these two sentences:

"The IMF warning came as the US Department of Energy on Thursday raised its oil price forecast in 2005 and 2006 to about $55 a barrel, up more than $6 from last month.

US crude futures were flat in late afternoon trade on Thursday at $55 a barrel."

The above sentences clearly do not refer to heavy crude, if the author wants to use the words "crude" and "oil" to refer to first both and then to
only one, he is obliged to alert readers he has changed the meanings
unless it's a deliberate attempt to mislead them.


I never said they were correct, just that I thought this was what they meant & I'm fairly certain it is what they mean. I agree the author could have been clearer & that people need to start looking at the average crude prices, not just the "sweet" crude prices. After all much of the Saudi output is medium/heavy oil & thus even if they doubled their output of that, it would not affect the "sweet" crude price much !!!
The roller coaster is still climbing, but it's near the top now !
Where there's a WAR there's a WAY :(
User avatar
No-Oil
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri 31 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: UK

Postby Aaron » Sun 10 Apr 2005, 18:56:01

Nope

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('No-Oil', 'W')hooooa there cowboys. The IMF is talking about average Crude prices, not "light sweet" crude that you see mentioned all the time at over $55 a barrel.
Some heavy crude is shipping today for less than $12 barrel & the main bulk of crude pumped in the world is of medium to heavy weight & trades for much less than the desirable "light sweet" crude that is preferred in the west for petrol production & because it is what our refineries are designed to process.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

Hazel Henderson
User avatar
Aaron
Resting in Peace
 
Posts: 5998
Joined: Thu 15 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Houston

International Money Fund calls PO in 2010?

Postby nth » Wed 20 Apr 2005, 13:02:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he IMF goes on to point out that non-Opec production is set to fall over the next 25 years, peaking in 2010.

Mark didn't highlight this. He should!
User avatar
nth
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Postby nth » Wed 20 Apr 2005, 13:26:29

IMF:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')EA (2004b)
expects non-OPEC oil production to rise from 50 mbd in 2004 to 57 mbd in 2010 (including nonconventional oil and processing gains), and stay broadly constant thereafter as falling production of conventional oil is offset by rising nonconventional oil production in Canada


http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo ... apter4.pdf

Was there a post about the IEA saying non-Opec peak in 2010?
I missed it if it was posted.
User avatar
nth
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: IMF calls PO in 2010?

Postby nth » Wed 20 Apr 2005, 13:29:30

Thanks Mark!

Anyone who doesn't believe in PO can now officially see IEA concluding that PO for non-Opec in 2010. IMF trusts IEA figures.
User avatar
nth
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2005, 04:00:00

Postby MicroHydro » Wed 20 Apr 2005, 13:48:05

I still see a Pollyanna attitude. The report believes that with adequate investment, OPEC can increase production to compensate for non-OPEC decline. They also believe that Canadian tar sand production can make up for shortfalls in conventional oil. The larger issue of overall global oil and gas production peaking has not been addressed.
User avatar
MicroHydro
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1242
Joined: Sun 10 Apr 2005, 03:00:00

Postby nth » Wed 20 Apr 2005, 14:27:03

I believe they are addressing it by stealth. They don't want to panick the public. They obviously don't believe in the scenarios picture by ASPO. They seem to think there will be a slow decline.

There are reports of drastic actions to be taken to seriously reduce oil demands- changes in lifestyle and economy to cope with oil crisis.

I think these reports in themselves are very daring and says how much they believe that PO is for real.
They are taking the economic approach in questioning the world's ability to invest in trillions of dollars to maintain adequate oil supplies. I believed IEA has published estimates of $3trillion USD to develop oil and gas to meet demands by 2035.

If these numbers don't trigger changes to our oil and gas consumption, then people are just being stupid.
It doesn't matter if PO is real or not, we won't be able to produce enough to satisfy unrestrained growth.
You really think we can afford to spend $3+trillion to develop oil and gas? This is not the total cost. This is to develop the infrastructure to explore and extract the oil and gas. Taxes and profits are not factored in.
User avatar
nth
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu 24 Feb 2005, 04:00:00

Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby something_awfull » Thu 13 Apr 2006, 19:30:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')OUNTRIES such as Australia that rely on oil imports must not cave in to public demands for petrol price relief, the International Monetary Fund warns.

Consumers must be fully exposed to rocketing prices and learn to change their consumption habits, the IMF says in a report released today.

The price of a litre of unleaded petrol rose from $1.16 to $1.30 in one day last week.

The IMF says that if consumers in net oil-importing countries felt the full force of market price signals on oil, it could prevent countries such as Australia from falling further into debt.

"For consuming countries, this requires full pass-through of world oil prices into domestic energy prices," the IMF's World Economic Outlook says.

Economists agree, saying higher prices would force consumers to use less petrol.

"People ought to be seeking to become more economical in their use of oil," ANZ's chief economist, Saul Eslake, said. "None of that will happen if governments seek to suppress price signals."

The Treasurer, Peter Costello, said this week the world had entered its "third oil shock", but the IMF report finds that shortages and high prices have, to date, been less severe than the previous two.

Nonetheless the IMF warns that oil prices will not fall soon. The world price of crude oil stayed at near-record levels this week, fetching $US68.50 ($93.50) a barrel on Friday. Higher oil prices are affecting the global economy, the IMF finds, because oil-exporting countries are hoarding more of their revenue from oil than in previous oil shortages. This stockpiling of petrodollars raises the risk of a "sudden, disorderly adjustment" in world markets, the IMF warns.

Mr Eslake said a fundamental shift in power could happen as global savings moved from generally compliant Asian nations towards oil exporters with a traditionally more hostile relationship with the world's biggest debtor, the United States.

These countries would be less inclined to buy American exports and fund its burgeoning current account deficit, he said.

"They have no particular vested interest in keeping the US economy afloat," Mr Eslake said.

The IMF says Saudi Arabia is still the biggest holder of world oil reserves (at 22.1 per cent), followed by Iran (11.1 per cent), Iraq (9.7 per cent) and Kuwait (8.3 per cent).

Meanwhile, the president of the NRMA, Alan Evans, said it was dishonest for petrol suppliers to blame the rising price of crude oil for sudden price rises at the bowser because a $1 rise in the price of crude oil equated to 1 cent per litre rise in the price of petrol.

Based on the price of a barrel of crude oil, petrol should have risen only by 3 cents a litre at the pump, he said.

There were also marked anomalies between the cost of petrol in the city and in the bush, Mr Evans said.

SMH


3rd world oil shock?, is this newspeak for peak oil, doom and stuff? :P


OIL PRICES AND GLOBAL IMBALANCES
User avatar
something_awfull
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat 13 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Top

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby something_awfull » Thu 13 Apr 2006, 19:41:36

In relation to that IMF report, what the heck is a "net foreign asset positions" ?
User avatar
something_awfull
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat 13 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby seahorse » Thu 13 Apr 2006, 19:48:49

Nice article Somethingawful,

There are a couple of concerning statements made by the IMF, one is, that higher prices are hear to stay - I hope Lynch is listening.

The other is the intimation there could be a dollar collapse or something to that effect.

"the IMF finds, because oil-exporting countries are hoarding more of their revenue from oil than in previous oil shortages. This stockpiling of petrodollars raises the risk of a "sudden, disorderly adjustment" in world markets, the IMF warns."
User avatar
seahorse
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2275
Joined: Fri 15 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Arkansas

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby ubercynicmeister » Thu 13 Apr 2006, 20:16:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('something_awfull', 'I')n relation to that IMF report, what the heck is a "net foreign asset positions" ?


In Australia's case: how much money we owe the rest of the world.

The IMF was using the typical understated threat of "we'll pound you into a ruined heap if you even so much as breathe a hint of questioning Economic Rationalism and Freemarket Fundamentalism." That is, if the Australian Federal Govt thinks it can lower the various levies, taxes, charges, surcharges, and other payola associated with fuel, it can think again.

We owe the rest of the world, BIG TIME and we had better keep on payin'.

OR ELSE.

And we had better keep on payin' even if the country goes completely broke.
.
"To Get Rich you have to:

*Get up early;

*Work Hard;

*Strike Oil"

J Paul Getty
User avatar
ubercynicmeister
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun 25 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Hunter Valley, New South Wales, Australia
Top

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby americandream » Thu 13 Apr 2006, 23:40:07

This is choice bullcrap....first the buggers wreck our public infrastructure with raegonomiks and then they have the cheek to tell us to take a hike. Come the Revolution............
americandream
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 8650
Joined: Mon 18 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby ohanian » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 05:36:19

The price of petrol is too cheap in Australia.
It needs to rise up to $2 per litre.
That is the right price for the damage
it will cause to the environment.
User avatar
ohanian
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Sun 17 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby something_awfull » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 06:02:16

I saw on the news that it will hit $1.60/L next week, if it's prolonged it should have some interesting inflationary effects, which will put pressure on the reserve bank to raise interest rates.
User avatar
something_awfull
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat 13 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney, Australia.

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby something_awfull » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 06:03:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', '[')size=200]The price of petrol is too cheap in Australia.
It needs to rise up to $2 per litre.
That is the right price for the damage
it will cause to the environment.
[/size]


From our POV, the price of petrol in America is too cheap.
User avatar
something_awfull
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat 13 Aug 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Sydney, Australia.
Top

Re: Get used to cost of petrol: IMF

Postby ubercynicmeister » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 21:30:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')his is choice bullcrap....first the buggers wreck our public infrastructure with raegonomiks and then they have the cheek to tell us to take a hike. Come the Revolution............


Ray-Gun-omics have much to answer for, but don't forget who Ronny Ray-Gun was indebted to for his ideas: Margaret Thatcher. And don't forget the author of Thacher's ideas - a Soviet Emigre (who had rejected Comunism) by the name of Ayn Rand. And she wrote a book "The Virtue Of Selfishness", and you can guess what's contained within from the title.

Essentially, it's the Yuppie Manifesto. The Communists had Marx's "Das Kapital". The Maoists had the "Little Red Book". The Yuppies have "The Virtue Of Selfisness". Oddly, they all seem to spring from the same type of thinking...hmmm, does anyone else see a connection?
.
"To Get Rich you have to:

*Get up early;

*Work Hard;

*Strike Oil"

J Paul Getty
User avatar
ubercynicmeister
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Sun 25 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Hunter Valley, New South Wales, Australia
Top

IMF in deficit due to commodity price rises

Postby rogerhb » Wed 26 Jul 2006, 21:20:17

Bankers Fear World Economic Meltdown

Apparently the poor countries are not playing the game and are actually paying off their loans.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gabriel Kolko', 'D')e Rato’s fears reflect the fact that the IMF has been undergoing both structural and intellectual crises. Structurally, its outstanding credit and loans have declined dramatically since 2003, from over $70 billion to a little over $20 billion today, doubling its available resources and leaving it with far less leverage over the economic policies of developing nations


Sounds like banks fear everyone being solvent more than people being bankrupt.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: IMF in deficit due to commodity price rises

Postby MrBill » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 05:38:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '[')url=http://www.counterpunch.org/kolko07262006.html]Bankers Fear World Economic Meltdown[/url]

Apparently the poor countries are not playing the game and are actually paying off their loans.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gabriel Kolko', 'D')e Rato’s fears reflect the fact that the IMF has been undergoing both structural and intellectual crises. Structurally, its outstanding credit and loans have declined dramatically since 2003, from over $70 billion to a little over $20 billion today, doubling its available resources and leaving it with far less leverage over the economic policies of developing nations
Sounds like banks fear everyone being solvent more than people being bankrupt.



Of course, it is very good that these countries do not have large loans hanging over their heads anymore, and do not have to come cap in hand to the IMF/WB for funding, which they are able to attract themselves via the eurobond and government bond markets.

I think far from a failure, this is a success of IMF policies to get their respective financial houses in order. Of course, along with debt paydown, there has also been debt write-off. The IMF will have a stronger balance sheet to deal with a slowdown in the global economy in the future as well.

But unfortunately, the IMF along with the EIB, EBRD, NIB, IFC and other supranational lenders earn their money like any other bank by taking in members deposits and lending them out at a spread. Less demand for loans, less income, so they have to make cutbacks in staff and costs like other banks as well.

Unfortunately, the demand for IMF bankers in the private sector probably is not very deep and they lose their nice tax free salaries and perks as well!
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron