[the48thronin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'm')anu,
Yeah, the factories bear no resemblance now, to what they once were. Time to flush that and start over.

As to getting back to the land, that's where I started in life. Yes, you can eke out a living at it, but you'll work yer arse off to get it. And, yes, that's better than going hungry. But I don't see as much discussion as I'd like about the work involved in that sort of life.

pedalling_faster wrote:
"part of the trick is to make "manufacturing engineer" and "manufacturing supervisor" and "worker" as respected as "supply chain manager", so that young engineers have the incentive to learn how to make stuff."

I've seen that, too. It's a damned shame that these punks can't figure out that respect is something one must have for themselves. I've been an engineer, and called everything: Tool Designer, Product Designer, Process Engineer, Manufacturing Engineer, Machine Designer, and various unprintable stuff, too, mostly by managers without a clue as to how the factory floor really worked. But they kept paying me a great salary, because they knew that THEY could not make anything happen out there.

The youngsters need to learn a few things. 1), All power is assumed, not given. 2), It is easier and more productive to ask forgiveness for ignoring management, than to ask permission for something they did NOT think of. 3) Sales Dept. is NOT management, no matter that they think so, nor are they very often engineers. So don't take their word for anything. They are employed as effective liars. 4) Product function is far more important than specifications: "If it will reliably make the car go down the road, nobody asks stupid questions." 5) Budgets and timetables are fictions created by managers with nothing better to do, and in total ignorance of the facts. 6) You had better be right, when you are as cocksure as is needed to do the job.

There is more, but that will do to start. I don't see much of the above in today's crop of engineers. They can go cry in their beer until they figure it out.

Find people with the attributes I listed in govt at any level, and I will be REAL surpised.

[bratticus]

Is It Time For The Government To Build And Run Factories?

Is It Time For The Government To Hit And Run Factories?

[basil_hayden]

Have you seen the cell phone walkie talkie commercials that ask "What if firefighters, or delivery people, ran things?"

What if Firefighters ran the world?

What if delivery people ran the world?


It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

The times of "If you can - do, if you can't - teach, if you can't teach - work for the government" have to be over with. All of the inept is now concentrated in government.

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shady28', '
')
Actually, the USSR did extremely well directing industry in the first 40 years or so.

[Greg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'T')he times of "If you can - do, if you can't - teach, if you can't teach - work for the government" have to be over with. All of the inept is now concentrated in government.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Greg', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'T')he times of "If you can - do, if you can't - teach, if you can't teach - work for the government" have to be over with. All of the inept is now concentrated in government.

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', 'H')ave you seen the cell phone walkie talkie commercials that ask "What if firefighters, or delivery people, ran things?

[idiom]

The government isn't very good at regarding and protecting competent or industrialy important individuals. The USSR was deliberately bad at this.

You have paranoid power mad individual like Stalin how fear anyone competent, and then you have screwed up idealouges like the Cambodians who kill anyone who knows anything on principal.

The USSR got as far as it did on the backs of brilliant individuals who gave in spite of seriously poor treatment. When they died, things fell apart.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[basil_hayden]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('basil_hayden', ' ')

It's not time for government to build and run factories, but time for factories to build and run a government.

[oiless]

I have no opinion of Communist China's manufacturing efficiency, but I can say that they actually turned out usable products, unlike much of the stuff made by Capitalist China.
I have a set of combination wrenches that were made in China before the "change" and they are easily a match for Snap-on, quality and finish-wise.

[threadbear]

Sure...as long as they don't sell them back to private industry once they start turning a profit.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oiless', 'I') have no opinion of Communist China's manufacturing efficiency, but I can say that they actually turned out usable products, unlike much of the stuff made by Capitalist China.
I have a set of combination wrenches that were made in China before the "change" and they are easily a match for Snap-on, quality and finish-wise.