by Pops » Mon 19 Jan 2009, 17:44:53
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bratticus', 'U')ntil then what can I do?
Deny.
Just as a sideline do you still smoke?
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Pops
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by Narz » Mon 19 Jan 2009, 19:22:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'I')t means eventually, you will have to use more energy to grow.
Of course. But not necessarily more than we're using now. We're always need new energy but we won't necessarily need as much new energy as we need to maintain things as they are now.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'N')o? If we increase efficiency and conservation efforts as we decline, won't that lower the price "relative" to what it would have been otherwise? Why wouldn't more "available" supply not lower the price?
Governmental pressure & socialital (cultural/moral) shifts.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')The problem is that our culture has made conservation into some sort of sin.
It's called the Paradox of Thriift and that is why the govt wants everybody to go out and spend and not conserve.
"Reduced economic activity" or "conservation" implodes the economy. Haven't you noticed the effects lately?
Conservation and a debt-based economy are like oil and water, they do not mix.
Could you imagine the effects embracing energy conservation would have on the economy about now? Not saying we shouldn't, but we had better be prepared to adapt to the consequences.
by MonteQuest » Tue 20 Jan 2009, 02:55:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', ' ') Of course. But not necessarily more than we're using now. We're always need new energy but we won't necessarily need as much new energy as we need to maintain things as they are now.
Tony, that doesn' t even make sense. What are you trying to say?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')overnmental pressure & socialital (cultural/moral) shifts.
No more free market?
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
by Narz » Tue 20 Jan 2009, 18:06:09
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'O')f course. But not necessarily more than we're using now. We're always need new energy but we won't necessarily need as much new energy as we need to maintain things as they are now.
Tony, that doesn' t even make sense. What are you trying to say?
It makes perfect sense.
For example, to run a network of 50,000 computers may take 10,000 kilowatts of power right now (just a guess, probably significantly less than that). In the future we may get things to the point efficiencywise where we can run 50,000 computers on just 750 kilowatts. Now these computers are still using power (and when they break they will need power to be fixed) but they'll use far less power than they would need now. It's no inconceivable that we could run the whole world on renewables. It's just currently inconceivable how to get there from here. We'd do well to focus on making computers doubly efficient every few years instead of just doubly powerful/able to store data but in our shortsightedness it just hasn't been a priority.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')overnmental pressure & socialital (cultural/moral) shifts.
No more free market?
by JoeW » Thu 22 Jan 2009, 16:32:20
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', '8')a The current economic problems have nothing to do with Peak Oil.
They sure as hell don't have as much to do with peak oil as the people here want.
When gasoline was $4 and fuel oil $4.50, that has an impact on an individual's ability to pay the mortgage.
Drive to work? Yes
Avoid freezing to death? Yes
Pay the mortgage? No
That's one of the reasons people stopped making timely payments. There definitely was an impact. It's just a matter of measuring how much the impact was. You could probably calculate the change in fuel prices as a percentage of GDP to illustrate the damage done.
