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PeakOil is You

Punish savers and make them spend money

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby Javaman » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 10:03:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thor', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', ' ')Taxing savings is ridiculous.


As ridiculous as it sounds, in The Netherlands (Holland) we do pay 1.2% tax on savings above 20k euros. This is government tyranny at its best.

I'm wondering when we start paying taxes on the air we breath. :twisted:


At least that would be a consumption tax.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 15:16:07

Why would anyone keep their money in Dutch banks if they have more than 20,000 Euros?

Has anyone ever actually paid that tax?

Switzerland is a mere phone call away...

Maybe the wealthy Dutch are gullible enough to sit back and get hosed by their government but America's wealthy aren't going to allow a 1.2% tax on a savings account that yields .2%.

Again, the talk of this kind of tax would encourage people to proactively send their money out of the country.

Unless this tax was made retroactive (which is unconstitutional and extremely unpopular), the money would never be taxed.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby IgnoranceIsBliss » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 17:13:50

What about senior citizens who have all of their meager savings in the bank? (like my husband's 80 something year old grandparents)?

These folks are very trusting of banks, and might not even notice if their money was taxed.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 18:51:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IgnoranceIsBliss', 'W')hat about senior citizens who have all of their meager savings in the bank? (like my husband's 80 something year old grandparents)?

These folks are very trusting of banks, and might not even notice if their money was taxed.



I feel the war of the seniors are upon us. Soon there will be many complaints, dentures will fly. Fear the old people for they are in depends.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 19:39:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IgnoranceIsBliss', 'W')hat about senior citizens who have all of their meager savings in the bank? (like my husband's 80 something year old grandparents)?

These folks are very trusting of banks, and might not even notice if their money was taxed.


Senior citizens are a large and powerful constituency group that would vehemently oppose a savings tax.

If you think the battle over Social Security Reform was bad, just wait till Congress tries to steal the life savings of everyone's parents and grandparents. Or rather, tries to DIRECTLY steal their savings rather than the vague indirect theft of inflation.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 21:33:24

It's nice to know some things never change. Here is Bastiat discussing the common misconceptions about saving in 1850.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')aving is voluntarily postponing until a later date our payment from society, in the form of equivalent services, for services previously rendered it. For example, a man may every day, from the time he is twenty until he is sixty, perform for his fellow men business and professional services equal, let us say, to four, while asking in return services equal only to three. In that case he is in the position of being able, in his old age, when he can no longer work, to receive from society payment for one-fourth of all his labor over the previous forty years.

The fact that his tokens of acknowledgment, which he has received and accumulated through the years, take the form of bills of exchange, promissory notes, bank notes, and specie, is an entirely secondary and nonessential consideration. It has reference only to the means of execution. It can change neither the nature nor the consequences of saving. The illusion created by the fact that money is involved is none the less an illusion, although nearly all of us fall victim to it.

Indeed, it is very difficult for us to resist the error of believing that the saver takes values out of circulation and, consequently, does a certain degree of harm to society.


http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basHar15.html
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby shady28 » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 01:46:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')'m speechless.

This is, perhaps, the dumbest proposal I've ever read in a financial publication.

And that includes the BUY BUY BUY TECH and "Why Homes Will Never Lose Value" crap.

Do you know what happens when you steal people's savings? They don't put money in the bank.

And what happens when there are no deposits in the banks?


You're exactly right - I qualify in the 'saver' group. The riskiest investment I have is treasuries / CDs.

My first thought on reading this post was "I wonder if they can tax my money if I put it in a foreign currency in a foreign bank? Or how about cash in a safe in the attic?"

I think this would be a virtually instantaneous collapse of the banking system.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 04:48:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')avings tax in UK is alive and well for many years.


That would be a good reason to ahve accounts in foreign countries... back to the idea of the original poster -> idiots should be taxed, god knows they tax my patience.

Anyone filling some SS form for large variety of benefits must answer a question:

Do you have any savings in offshore bank or any investment abroad?
If "yes", then they are asking for further details (how much, where etc).

Obviously you may lie (if you have such savings) but governments (and banks) are increasingly sharing banking information, so there is some chance that you might be caught.

Storing cash at home is not the best idea either.
Only wait for coming inflation binge in second half of this year...

Storing gold is not a good idea too.
1. Its value is varying wildly and can be a subject of government meddling.
2. May be stolen.
3. May be confiscated (particularly if you leave some paper trails following your purchasing transactions).

With some ingenuity you may reduce risks from 2 & 3 but you can still suffer substantial losses due to 1.

So we may be entering "savingless world".
However those who have managed to cling to some sort of investments of any kind, which preserved value despite of collapse of capitalism will likely buy their ticket to elites of brave new world...

So good luck...
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 05:02:21

Government can also make it illegal to buy or sell gold (under the title of meddling) which would make it dangerous to try to use the savings.

I would love to make a bet on inflation by purchasing some gold, but I can not take the risk that trading in gold is suspended in some fashion.
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Re: Punish savers and make them spend money

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Mon 12 Jan 2009, 05:26:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'G')overnment can also make it illegal to buy or sell gold (under the title of meddling) which would make it dangerous to try to use the savings.

I would love to make a bet on inflation by purchasing some gold, but I can not take the risk that trading in gold is suspended in some fashion.

In general black markets will cover for that, should things come to crunch.
They always do.

However you would have to become to be a crook to make use of such savings.
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