[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', '+')1. Its just simple numbers. Standing force vs armed citizens. They have better training and weapons. ...

I think we would also see a huge drop off in military enrollment when you know you will be deployed to confiscate food/assets from American citizens with the possibility of dying or shooting one.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '
')
However, RE is luckily in a vastly different geographic location though still in the US. I am sure his exerience will be worlds different than yours or mine.

[Arsenal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', '+')1. Its just simple numbers. Standing force vs armed citizens. They have better training and weapons. ...

I think we would also see a huge drop off in military enrollment when you know you will be deployed to confiscate food/assets from American citizens with the possibility of dying or shooting one.

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'H')owever, people made it up here before Big Oil came to rule the wolrd, they will again. They made it through cooperation and sharing, heck its even an Inuit tradition to share your wife with a visitor.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')I really have no idea how it will all play out in reality, I can only play out scenarios in hypothetical. I will however report on it for as long as I can here on Peak Oil. For so long as the internet holds up, I won't run out of words. I guarantee it.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', '
')Most gun owners will not give up their guns for a day or weeks worth of food because after that you cannot hunt anything more.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Arsenal', '
')Most gun owners will not give up their guns for a day or weeks worth of food because after that you cannot hunt anything more.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')I really have no idea how it will all play out in reality, I can only play out scenarios in hypothetical. I will however report on it for as long as I can here on Peak Oil. For so long as the internet holds up, I won't run out of words. I guarantee it.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Base on your data above I have good reasons to believe that following American collapse Alaska will return to a wilderness with hardly any human population left.

You will observe following order of events:

1. Collapse of high tech life support.
2. Great Escape (it will be a real fun to watch in TV hordes of Alaskan refugees camping around Chicago and begging for food aid and tents/blankets).
3. Dieoff of those left behind.

There is no warranty at all that any humans will still stay alive there after dieoff is complete, but my reasonable guess is that few thousands of humans distributed in several dozens of packs will prevail.
Somehow I suspect that these will be mainly recruited from Inuits who still remember how to carry on with their traditional way of life...

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'B')ase on your data above I have good reasons to believe that following American collapse Alaska will return to a wilderness with hardly any human population left.

You will observe following order of events:

1. Collapse of high tech life support.
2. Great Escape (it will be a real fun to watch in TV hordes of Alaskan refugees camping around Chicago and begging for food aid and tents/blankets).
3. Dieoff of those left behind.

There is no warranty at all that any humans will still stay alive there after dieoff is complete, but my reasonable guess is that few thousands of humans distributed in several dozens of packs will prevail.
Somehow I suspect that these will be mainly recruited from Inuits who still remember how to carry on with their traditional way of life...

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')Your outlook is founded in a misanthropy that had its genesis in the Soviet collapse and you experiences with that. I do understand it quite well. No matter what Hopeful scenario I post up, you will come back with some other scenario to justify your belief that in all places, all will die or all will descend to the lowest depth of human immorality possible. This is rooted in your deep fear that this is what is coming down the pipe again for Poland, and this time you might not be so fortunate to make it thru as a black marketeer.

...

It is your goal here in argument with me to destroy my hope, as yours has been destroyed. This is the reason for the misanthropy which pervades your posts. You cannot destroy my hopes EU, because I can always argue you down, because I have a strength that comes from very deep inside, its a fundamental belief that Good will Triumph over Evil. I am a Warrior here, when I spy the Evil, I BURY it with my keyboard. Feel free to Battle with me here EU, for as long as the Internet is up and running I will come back at you every time, with a HOPE and a Shining Light that is my Sword here. It cannot be put out by the likes of you, EVER. You are without hope, your soul is lost. It is your weakness.

Reverse Engineer

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')Your outlook is founded in a misanthropy that had its genesis in the Soviet collapse and you experiences with that. I do understand it quite well. No matter what Hopeful scenario I post up, you will come back with some other scenario to justify your belief that in all places, all will die or all will descend to the lowest depth of human immorality possible. This is rooted in your deep fear that this is what is coming down the pipe again for Poland, and this time you might not be so fortunate to make it thru as a black marketeer.

...

It is your goal here in argument with me to destroy my hope, as yours has been destroyed. This is the reason for the misanthropy which pervades your posts. You cannot destroy my hopes EU, because I can always argue you down, because I have a strength that comes from very deep inside, its a fundamental belief that Good will Triumph over Evil. I am a Warrior here, when I spy the Evil, I BURY it with my keyboard. Feel free to Battle with me here EU, for as long as the Internet is up and running I will come back at you every time, with a HOPE and a Shining Light that is my Sword here. It cannot be put out by the likes of you, EVER. You are without hope, your soul is lost. It is your weakness.

Reverse Engineer

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')Thank you for bringing that up Its the flip side of the same coin of course.

The point you are avoiding is upon whom are consumed here in the Fires of Hell, eh?

Please, feel free to bring up all my old posts to demonstrate your perceptions of manichaeanism. Its still consistent philosophy, its just judgemental philosophy that you do not like. You are concerned with historical precedents of Stalinist Purges, Genocide and the Holocaust etc, all valid concerns of course when discussing Justice dispensed by one man in judgement of another. I'm happy to discuss that problem with you anytime of course. However, you won't get very far simply pulling up my old quotes and putting faces after them. You'll actually have to make an argument.

Until such time as you can argue it down, I'll make the Judgements as I see fit, as Chief Justice and Lord High Executioner of the Pigmen

Reverse Engineer

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'B')ut then again you are not like other people, are you? You are enlightened, they are "pigmen." You are holy; they are darned to heck. You speak the truth and wave a righteous gun; they are guilty of ad homins. They should be held accountable; your words should not be held against you.

[Cloud9]

It seems to me that the one thing we Americans have going for us is our belief system. Republican democracy along with free market capitalism bound up with the bill of rights will still be intact in the minds of most people as the ideal regardless of what happens politically or economically. A local war lord may take over in a given area for a brief period of time but in the hearts and minds of most Americans will exist the idea that something is radically wrong. We have a long history of restoring the system with the vote, the rifle, and the rope.

Both the Soviets and the Native American peoples lost their paradigms. The world they believed in perished and when that perished, they lost hope.

The country hasn't lost hope.

[Arsenal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'I')t seems to me that the one thing we Americans have going for us is our belief system. Republican democracy along with free market capitalism bound up with the bill of rights will still be intact in the minds of most people as the ideal regardless of what happens politically or economically. A local war lord may take over in a given area for a brief period of time but in the hearts and minds of most Americans will exist the idea that something is radically wrong. We have a long history of restoring the system with the vote, the rifle, and the rope.

Both the Soviets and the Native American peoples lost their paradigms. The world they believed in perished and when that perished, they lost hope.

The country hasn't lost hope.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'B')ut then again you are not like other people, are you? You are enlightened, they are "pigmen." You are holy; they are darned to heck. You speak the truth and wave a righteous gun; they are guilty of ad homins. They should be held accountable; your words should not be held against you.

[davep]

I like RE's philosophy. Assets should be common. It fits in with the anarchism ideal. However, in the short term we need to be able to transition to this state without undue discomfort (death).

I've bought my bit of land according to current laws. However, when the hordes start a-coming, I'm perfectly happy with the idea of helping those I can, and letting them help me and the community survive. We will need far more people to tend the land.

However, we will hit a point where we cannot oversaturate the subsistence lifestyle. This is why it's also important to ensure others are on board, and that a community can absorb urban refugees.

Then we may hit a point when we have to turn people away. This will be tough. I guess in the short term we could give food for work and then let them go on their way to the next place. But we also need to be prepared to fight to preserve ourselves (and those who have come to join us). Therefore we need to get arms now, otherwise we become mere pawns as others impose their own barbaric laws.

I would love to start creating a template for anarchism, while we're still calm enough to do so without malice. A kind of bill of rights. Any ideas?

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'R')E, you are truly a rock that is immovable. You do not blow with the wind, you are a fact that makes other people uncomfortable.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')It is your goal here in argument with me to destroy my hope, as yours has been destroyed. This is the reason for the misanthropy which pervades your posts.