I assume the bent of this thread is not to deal with legal methods of confiscation such as would occur during a R.I.C.O. action or failure to pay taxes
Two of my best friends are retired Colonels. Both commanded various military bases during their careers and both agree that the foremost thought of any commander is to maintain the integrity of his command. Under normal circumstances and I am assuming that depressions even great ones are normal circumstances, both Colonels agree that they would rely on the civilian leadership to ensure the continuance of their forces.
It is the unusual circumstance that poses the problem. Asteroid, EMP, pandemic, super volcano, and civil war are unusual circumstances. Both Colonels agree that they would do whatever was necessary to feed their people. When Sherman shows up with 62,000 men and takes your hogs and grain, and then burns down your barns and house, there isn’t much you can do about it.
At that point, the military would have changed from a force whose mission was to serve and protect into a serious threat to the survival of the individual. Under those circumstances there would appear to be three options: 1. Join the 62,000. 2. Successfully conceal your provisions so that you and yours could continue independent of the military. 3. Feed off the military.
PeakOil is You
THE Asset Confiscation Thread (merged)
Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by Cloud9 » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 09:35:32
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by ReverseEngineer » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 10:19:55
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', ' ')So does your intention to protect your people also include the authorities? What would you do if the cops showed up and said they were collecting everything to redistribute it equally to all the people in the area?
Ah, the Military/Police Problem. A tough one indeed.
As mentioned in the thread already, at a certain point in a social collapse, the "authorities" can become as much a danger as any Zombie, probably more since they are organized with the bes weapons. It does not behoove you to fight such a force as long as it holds integrity. Rather you are better off trying to cooperate so long as you can, so long as your own life or that of your oved ones is not in immediate danger.
I know quite a few State Troopers, and several Jet Pilots from the Elmendorf. One significant aspect you have to remember is that these guys all have FAMILIES who live in the COMMUNITY. In the breakdown I postulate as possible, their own families will be hurting just as much as everyone else. Soldiers can be brainwashed, cops have a mentality all their own, but basically they are Protectors in nature. The KEY is not to be on the WRONG side of the gun they are holding.
As good as I am with a rifle, I know I stand no chance if I cannot co-opt those other Protectors into the community idea. I will be plugged full of lead if I tried to stand them down that way. That is a mistake. You have to realize these are people though with families the want to protect as well, and you have to draw them into the circle. They become then a valuable ASSET to the comunity, rather than a danger to it. Having a good Guard Dog on your property is a good idea, even better is to have somebody who flies an F16 defending your community.
A Community needs Protectors. Its a fundamental job of the Tribal life. Just it is always true they are a danger, and you have to keep such folks on a short leash. Its a tough balace to maintain, because of course the power inherent in a military or police commander can lead to corruption, as all power does. How do you control such people? CAREFULLY. LOL. I am not a very big guy, but I grew up in one of the toughest neighborhoods in the NYC of my day. I never got beat up, never got in a fight. You wanna know HOW I managed that? I made FRIENDS with some very BIG BOYS. Not always the brightest bulbs in the box, but always handy to have around. The hard part is coopting such folks, but it can be done.
Reverse Engineer
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by kjmclark » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 10:49:33
Where are the other options? Like:
3. Hide it
4. Let them take what they want
5. Hire a good lawyer
6. Send what you can out of the country
7. Move to Canada
8. What assets?
9. Why would they want my old junk?
10. Isn't that what the IRS/state/county/city/township does already?
3. Hide it
4. Let them take what they want
5. Hire a good lawyer
6. Send what you can out of the country
7. Move to Canada
8. What assets?
9. Why would they want my old junk?
10. Isn't that what the IRS/state/county/city/township does already?
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by Cloud9 » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 11:03:02
Kind of hard to hide the farm or pick it up and take it to Canada.
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by eXpat » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 11:37:13
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
“You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
George Bernard Shaw
“You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by Heineken » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 14:52:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'K')ind of hard to hide the farm or pick it up and take it to Canada.
Yeh, somebody tell me how to "move to Canada" and I'm gone.
It's no simple matter; I've looked into it.
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---I & my bro.
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by kpeavey » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 16:44:36
marry a Canadian
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
_____
twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
-George Orwell, 1984
_____
twenty centuries of stony sleep were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, and what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-George Yeats
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by bratticus » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 17:14:25
Oh Cana-duh
Land of the 500 dead, oil-coated ducks
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Once-booming oilsands face uncertain future
EDMONTON
The Canadian Press
Dec 26, 2008
Thousands of workers from as far away as the Philippines are watching their jobs in Alberta evaporate as the richest oil boom in the province’s history deflates.
Sinking oil prices have forced skittish investors to hedge their bets on half a dozen multibillion-dollar oilsands projects, leaving one of the key engines of Canada’s economy teetering on an uncertain future.
Ben Stacey, a pipefitter from Newfoundland, was making as much as $70 an hour in the oilsands when he was blindsided by sudden layoffs.
“You can make $70,000 up there in three months,” Stacey, 54, told The Canadian Press from his home back in Grand Bank. “If the price of oil keeps on dropping, you’re going to see a lot of Newfoundlanders on unemployment here and a lot of people selling their trucks.”
The scramble to mine tar-like bitumen and refine it into synthetic crude stopped abruptly after oil prices, which had soared to US$147 in the summer, tumbled below US$40.
“The economy in our town generally depends on what happens in Alberta because of the work shortage in Newfoundland,” Stacey said. “So as Alberta goes, that’s the way we go here in the small towns.”
The province that has been the envy of the rest of the country for years is not doing so well these days. After 15 consecutive massive surpluses, Finance Minister Iris Evans admits Alberta could be heading for a deficit in 2009-10. That’s still relative, however, since the province has billions in the bank that have been saved in case of just such a shortfall.
The steady stream of workers that had been pouring into northern Alberta reversed this fall as nearly every major project was delayed, cancelled or scaled back.
... skip ...
“The gold rush is over,” said a recruiter, who asked not to be identified, for a large multinational firm. “Up until four or five months ago, there were shortages in pretty much every trade,” he said. “The higher-paying jobs seemed to dry up all at once this fall, as did the need to bring in people from other provinces and other countries.”
... skip ...
A recent forecast by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business suggests expectations among small businesses in Alberta are approaching a record low.Something else is different in 2008. The oilsands have been facing a dreadful image problem. International media have talked about how developers are “raping” a swatch of land the size of Florida. And environmentalists in both North America and Europe have taken aim.
... skip ...
But the cruellest image blow came in April, when pictures of 500 ducks dying in the toxic sludge of an oilsands tailings pond were flashed around the world.
...snip...
Land of the 500 dead, oil-coated ducks
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Once-booming oilsands face uncertain future
EDMONTON
The Canadian Press
Dec 26, 2008
Thousands of workers from as far away as the Philippines are watching their jobs in Alberta evaporate as the richest oil boom in the province’s history deflates.
Sinking oil prices have forced skittish investors to hedge their bets on half a dozen multibillion-dollar oilsands projects, leaving one of the key engines of Canada’s economy teetering on an uncertain future.
Ben Stacey, a pipefitter from Newfoundland, was making as much as $70 an hour in the oilsands when he was blindsided by sudden layoffs.
“You can make $70,000 up there in three months,” Stacey, 54, told The Canadian Press from his home back in Grand Bank. “If the price of oil keeps on dropping, you’re going to see a lot of Newfoundlanders on unemployment here and a lot of people selling their trucks.”
The scramble to mine tar-like bitumen and refine it into synthetic crude stopped abruptly after oil prices, which had soared to US$147 in the summer, tumbled below US$40.
“The economy in our town generally depends on what happens in Alberta because of the work shortage in Newfoundland,” Stacey said. “So as Alberta goes, that’s the way we go here in the small towns.”
The province that has been the envy of the rest of the country for years is not doing so well these days. After 15 consecutive massive surpluses, Finance Minister Iris Evans admits Alberta could be heading for a deficit in 2009-10. That’s still relative, however, since the province has billions in the bank that have been saved in case of just such a shortfall.
The steady stream of workers that had been pouring into northern Alberta reversed this fall as nearly every major project was delayed, cancelled or scaled back.
... skip ...
“The gold rush is over,” said a recruiter, who asked not to be identified, for a large multinational firm. “Up until four or five months ago, there were shortages in pretty much every trade,” he said. “The higher-paying jobs seemed to dry up all at once this fall, as did the need to bring in people from other provinces and other countries.”
... skip ...
A recent forecast by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business suggests expectations among small businesses in Alberta are approaching a record low.Something else is different in 2008. The oilsands have been facing a dreadful image problem. International media have talked about how developers are “raping” a swatch of land the size of Florida. And environmentalists in both North America and Europe have taken aim.
... skip ...
But the cruellest image blow came in April, when pictures of 500 ducks dying in the toxic sludge of an oilsands tailings pond were flashed around the world.
...snip...
[flash width=425 height=344]http://www.youtube.com/v/F54rqDh2mWA[/flash]
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Re: What would you do facing prospect of assets confiscation
by wisconsin_cur » Sun 04 Jan 2009, 18:22:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'K')ind of hard to hide the farm or pick it up and take it to Canada.
But you can hide the harvest, or a portion of it.
If you know Sherman is coming, to use another illustration from this thread, you do not leave all the grain sitting out; just enough and then the rest is buried. Sherman will not stay. Sherman (probably) will not use his men to tend your fields. Sherman came and Sherman went. You just need to have the tools and fuel (ie food) to rebuild.
http://www.thenewfederalistpapers.com
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Don the Kevlar BVDs, Lock and Load the Shotgun. Best of luck to you there my friend. LOL.
