[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lowem', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'H')as it even remotely occurred to you that we don't recycle lithium ions because it would be too difficult to pull it back out of the batteries? This isn't aluminum cans we're talking about here.

[promisingfuture]

To see a new perspective on this subject, I would encourage everyone here to read my EV WORLD feature article "Peak Lithium or Lithium in Abundance?" published on May 22, 2008.

[Cashmere]

PF_

Link?

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zensui', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', 'L')ithium is a common treatment for schizophrenia. A lot of people think golem is a crazy man who's gone off his meds.

[Sideous]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'Y')es Please - I'll get back to the papers.

I need time to do the analysis.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here is some degree of truth to the "peak lithium" theory, but only barely. There is enough lithium to go around. The only issue is finding enough of it concentrated in "economic" deposits, mostly in brine (salt) lakes and ponds.

[frankthetank]

OR the country falls into depression, people have no money for food, let alone Lithium ion powered cars, so the hybrid of choice is a pair of old sneakers.

[promisingfuture]

Cashmere:

Here is the link for "Peak Lithium or Lithium in Abundance?":
http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1457

PF

[promisingfuture]

Gasmon:

Don´t be so sanguine. The world is much more complex than that. There are too many stakeholders in the energy business. Even if the solution you propose were technologically correct, you would be missing a crucial point: consumers´habits and energy-producing companies´s interests.

PF

[yesplease]

Lo and behold, the front runner for EV apps, Lithium Iron Phosphate, uses an eighth of the Lithium other common Lithium based chemistries use.

[promisingfuture]

Thanks yesplease for such valuable piece of information. A couple of days ago I was somewhat confused with the data provided by Buying your Dreams (BYD) from China that the new batteries used by the first mass-produced plug-in electric cars just launched into the market were ferrum batteries rather than lithium-ion batteries. Indeed they are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries and as you correctly state in your entry they need about 1/8 of lithium in comparison with lithium-ion batteries. As you may also realized, this seriously erodes the "peak lithium" argument and may pave the way for the inauguration of the lithium era in the world, a topic I take up in the January 2009 issue of Industrial Minerals which I will now further elaborate on my presentation at the Lithium Supply and Market conference to be held in January 22-28 in Santiago, Chile.

[outcast]

We've been running out of everything for quite sometime now, and yet it never seems to come true. I'm getting really skeptical whenever I hear peak this or peak that. Yes there is a finite amount of everything, but these resources have constantly been severely underestimated.

[mos6507]

I think there is a tendency to take an existing theory and try it on elsewhere even when it may not be applicable. When fossil fuels are burned, they are GONE as an energy source. When elements are used to make things (a different activity altogether) they are just transformed but can be reclaimed and recycled. Sometimes the recycling isn't easy. Sometimes it isn't cheap. But the elements remain. For instance, all lead acid batteries are recycled. Lithium batteries aren't being recycled because it's currently cheaper to just mine more lithium and dump the old ones in landfills (which unlike lead, is benign yet still wasteful). How we work with elements that are common today but won't be common when scaled out over the entire globe is gonna change. It's just a matter of time.

I'm much more concerned about the rare elements used in thin-film and dye-sensitized solar panels since their whole business model is riding on the future availability of elements like indium, gallium, telluride, and ruthenium, not to mention the platinum in fuel cells. Unlike lithium, there may not be enough of these to even get to the initial scale out point to even think about how recycling would help.

[Zero-point]

Why do you need lithium when you can use super capacitors that don't degrade and can be recharged indefinitely.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zero-point', 'W')hy do you need lithium when you can use super capacitors that don't degrade and can be recharged indefinitely.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I')'m much more concerned about the rare elements used in thin-film and dye-sensitized solar panels since their whole business model is riding on the future availability of elements like indium, gallium, telluride, and ruthenium, not to mention the platinum in fuel cells. Unlike lithium, there may not be enough of these to even get to the initial scale out point to even think about how recycling would help.

[Dezakin]

Lithium is only like ten times as abundant as lead, and so far lead-acid batteries aren't exhausting our lead reserves...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'L')ithium is only like ten times as abundant as lead, and so far lead-acid batteries aren't exhausting our lead reserves...

[outcast]

Eventually yes, but it can take a long time.