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Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.

Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby oiless » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 00:14:51

The technology works, unfortunately I think it's one of those things where more has been forgotten than is presently known.
Certainly it's not one of those things where every vehicle can be run on it, there is not enough wood in the world. It is something that can be done when you need to run an internal combustion engine and there is no other way to do it.
Here's what one fellow did, and his many problems:
Pope woodgas
and:
stationary engine

There's quite a bit of info on the web.
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby careinke » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 01:48:29

FEMA has plans for a wood gas generator. Here is a link for the PDF document

Wood gas generator

Cliff(Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 03:38:30

The FEMA gasifier is pretty much standard. Most of the proponents of gasifier systems say there isn't really much you can do to tweak the system. they jsut work.

I've been on a gasifier forum for a couple years now and the numbers I've seen them run makes it more than economical as for $150/cord, if done right you can get approx 0.15$a km/. Where the technology falls down is that you only get 40%-50% of your normal power.
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby yesplease » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 05:11:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'M')ost of the price of a cord of wood is the labor to cut it and the transportation to where it is needed. Even if you own the trees someone, yourself or someone you hired has to do the work. To think that any piece of wood is free when you put it into the stove or the gassafier is wrong and the current market price is a fair estimate of the time and effort required to obtain it at the point of use. I wont charge myself for my standing wood but my back muscles will charge me dearly for every cord.
Well, to be fair the price of your wood is free for yourself, less food costs, the majority of the cost seems to be to your time.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'I')f you consider the process of switching to an alternate fuel it can be helpful to break it down into phases. Phase one growing or acquiring the fuel feed stock. Phase two refining the feed stock into useable fuel, And phase three modifying the engine to run on the new fuel.
Phase one gets ruled by what you can actually grow to a useful stage on your land. I'm not going to be growing any palm oil in VT.
You don't need to grow palms.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rom Alburg to Brattleboro, not only is biodiesel being integrated into the existing fuel-supply infrastructure, but also more and more farmers are realizing that it makes sense to produce biodiesel on their farms to meet their operational needs. In just the last two growing seasons, several Vermont farms have begun cultivating feedstock or seed-oil crops for biofuels such as soy, mustard, sunflower, and rapeseed (canola).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'W')ith biodiesel phase one and two are hard but little needs to be done in phase three. With 100% ethanol you have to build a very good still in phase two and modify your engine/carburation unless you own one of the newer dual fuel vehicles coming out.
With wood gas I own the feed stock and have the tools and knowhow to process it to the point of use. Phase three is considerable though as it looks like you are carrying your refinery on the vehicle along with some carburation modifications.
I haven't begun to do a complete comparison analysis and have no opinion which will be better for me on my location.
You're missing out on a big one, SVO/WVO, which is why I mentioned a heat exchanger. Grow your oil crop. Harvest it, press it, then filter and dewater it. No need for screwing around w/ chemicals. Maybe make a little biodiesel to start your diesel, or just keep a stockpile of diesel for starts handy, and switch to SVO once the coolant temp gets high enough. You can even run it on nothing but SVO as long as you have an electric heater and something to move the cold oil out of the IP and the warm oil in.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'T')his was just in the news and local and I thought it would be of interest to those here. Got to wonder if the guy is lurking here at PO. It sounds like he spends some time at the keyboard.
I would not be shocked, especially since there are only six people online in the whole country w/ his setup. At least one of 'em must be on here.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby IslandCrow » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 09:37:44

biofuels ---how to make them and use them

If you scroll about halfway down you will get to to a section entitled:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ood Gas for Internal Combustion Engines

Please be careful!! -- There is a Carbon Monoxide poisoning hazard with all wood gasifiers


maybe of most significance for this thread is the link to FAO paper on "Wood Gas as Engine Fuel -- Design Manual".


Happy reading
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby oiless » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 12:00:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'T')he FEMA gasifier is pretty much standard. Most of the proponents of gasifier systems say there isn't really much you can do to tweak the system. they jsut work.

I've been on a gasifier forum for a couple years now and the numbers I've seen them run makes it more than economical as for $150/cord, if done right you can get approx 0.15$a km/. Where the technology falls down is that you only get 40%-50% of your normal power.


Actually my understanding is that the FEMA gasifier is just what it purports to be, something you can build quickly out of junk for emergency use.
The Imbert style gasifiers are supposed to be more efficient and produce less tar.
I think there is probably still room for design and control improvement in the field of gasifiers.
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Sat 03 Jan 2009, 12:21:36

Anybody know what the tax implications of this are? I know technically you're supposed to pay fuel tax on home-made biodiesel. You can't easily apply a per-gallon tax to wood though.
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Re: Vermonter runs pickup on wood gas

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 01 Feb 2009, 19:54:49

Technically, you have to pay the Federal road tax through the IRS, but while you're at it you can also get a $1/gallon tax credit from running WVO or the 50c/gallon tax credit for running an alternative fuel.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')xtension of Biodiesel Production Tax Credit; Extension and Modification of Renewable Diesel Tax Credit. The bill extends the $1.00 per gallon production tax credit for biodiesel and the 10¢/gallon credit for small biodiesel producers through 2009. The bill also extends the $1.00 per gallon production tax credit for diesel fuel created from biomass. The bill eliminates the current-law disparity in credit for biodiesel and agri-biodiesel, and eliminates the requirement that renewable diesel fuel must be produced using a thermal depolymerization process. As a result, the credit will be available for any diesel fuel created from biomass without regard to the process used, so long as the fuel is usable as home heating oil, as a fuel in vehicles, or as aviation jet fuel. Diesel fuel created by co-processing biomass with other feedstocks (e.g., petroleum) will be eligible for the 50¢/gallon tax credit for alternative fuels. Biodiesel imported and sold for export will not be eligible for the credit effective May 15, 2008. The estimated cost of this proposal is $451 million over 10 years.


I doubt biomass/wood is gas is an authorized on-road fuel, but otoh I also doubt the EPA is going to bother going after a few people since they have at most gone after businesses, so someone doing all the IRS paperwork would probably be o.k. as long as they stayed under the radar. As usual you can use jut about any type of carbonaceous solid for gasification. No need to cut down all the trees on your lot, just thin the local foliage and make used of other dried organic "waste".
[video width=400 height=350]http://www.youtube.com/v/8JyazgRBtq8[/video]
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