Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Carlhole » Sun 21 Dec 2008, 20:08:38

General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Telegraph', 'T')he newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives.

The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home.

But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts"...


Sometimes I wonder idly: What if everyone had access to the complete truth of all human history in all its magnificent detail, in all its daily minutiae stretching back hundreds of thousands of years? Not the propaganda or the spin or the interpretation - but the Truth, in all its complexity and maddening shades-of-gray. What effect would that have on our perception of ourselves?
Carlhole
 

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby PenultimateManStanding » Sun 21 Dec 2008, 21:19:32

I remember reading the notion that one of the primary functions of language is to lie. Sort of like how a creature will disguise itself as an evolutionary strategy for survival.
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby 3aidlillahi » Sun 21 Dec 2008, 22:14:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') remember reading the notion that one of the primary functions of language is to lie. Sort of like how a creature will disguise itself as an evolutionary strategy for survival.


So you're saying that Roccman was part of the CIA group that carried out 9/11? :?

Oh no! Obama is going to backtrack on his campaign promises!
Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
User avatar
3aidlillahi
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue 25 Mar 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby PenultimateManStanding » Sun 21 Dec 2008, 22:43:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') remember reading the notion that one of the primary functions of language is to lie. Sort of like how a creature will disguise itself as an evolutionary strategy for survival.


So you're saying that Roccman was part of the CIA group that carried out 9/11? :?

Oh no! Obama is going to backtrack on his campaign promises!
No, what I'm saying is that Carlhole raised a profound point. We live in a world of lies. I was suggesting that nature makes it that way. That is the source of our disagreements. I say there really isn't much one can do about it.
Turn those Machines back On! - Don Ameche in Trading Places
User avatar
PenultimateManStanding
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 11363
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Neither Here Nor There

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Eli » Sun 21 Dec 2008, 22:58:58

Inaccuracy from the article, Patton did not carry two pearl handled revolvers.

He carried two Ivory handled revolvers, only a pimp or a tin-horn gambler would carry a pearl handled pistol.

Interesting story, Patton was a terrible politician which is why he was such a great General.
User avatar
Eli
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: In a van down by the river

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby blukatzen » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:28:18

Hi Carl, the author of that book was interviewed on CoasttoCoastAM 2 Saturday's ago. It was quite an interesting conversation, with Ian Punnett. Maybe it's up on Youtube.

Blu
User avatar
blukatzen
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon 11 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Chicago

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Carlhole » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:32:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', 'H')i Carl, the author of that book was interviewed on CoasttoCoastAM 2 Saturday's ago. It was quite an interesting conversation, with Ian Punnett. Maybe it's up on Youtube.

Blu


This is the first I've heard of any controversy over Patton's death. I'll have to look for that book at the library.
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Serial_Worrier » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:34:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/3869117/General-George-S.-Patton-was-assassinated-to-silence-his-criticism-of-allied-war-leaders-claims-new-book.html]General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Telegraph', 'T')he newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives.

The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home.

But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts"...


Sometimes I wonder idly: What if everyone had access to the complete truth of all human history in all its magnificent detail, in all its daily minutiae stretching back hundreds of thousands of years? Not the propaganda or the spin or the interpretation - but the Truth, in all its complexity and maddening shades-of-gray. What effect would that have on our perception of ourselves?


It was the Jews I tell you. The Jews.
User avatar
Serial_Worrier
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1549
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:47:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/3869117/General-George-S.-Patton-was-assassinated-to-silence-his-criticism-of-allied-war-leaders-claims-new-book.html]General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Telegraph', 'T')he newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives.

The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home.

But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts"...


Sometimes I wonder idly: What if everyone had access to the complete truth of all human history in all its magnificent detail, in all its daily minutiae stretching back hundreds of thousands of years? Not the propaganda or the spin or the interpretation - but the Truth, in all its complexity and maddening shades-of-gray. What effect would that have on our perception of ourselves?


You wouldn't want to know.

You would loose your mind, truthfully.

The PTB that do know are multiple personalities (And VERY evil) or they couldn't handle it either.

You wouldn't want to know.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby smallpoxgirl » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:53:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')ometimes I wonder idly: What if everyone had access to the complete truth of all human history in all its magnificent detail, in all its daily minutiae stretching back hundreds of thousands of years? Not the propaganda or the spin or the interpretation - but the Truth, in all its complexity and maddening shades-of-gray. What effect would that have on our perception of ourselves?


The broader issue, IMHO, is that more significant issues of history are not facts - Who shot whom on what date. They're much more nuanced questions of intent, motivation, and experience. We have this idea of narrative history - that there is one true version of what happened. For most of history, I think the reality is that the truth of what happened depends largely on who was doing the observing. I think that most of history has many different true versions. The problem for most of us, is that we've been told a version of history by the most privileged in our society. It's their truth, but for most of us, it's not our truth. Because we don't own newspapers or textbook publishers, most of us have lost touch with our own history. I wonder if that will change in the internet age. Perhaps the ability of people to tell their own story and put it out there for people to read, maybe that will change the path of how history gets written.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
User avatar
smallpoxgirl
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7258
Joined: Mon 08 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 02:58:20

That is one way to go into denial and save your mind.

It is the expected defense, and stalin and himler both admitted this.

If you make the crime heinous enough you don't need to make excuses, the people just won't believe it. (THEY ADMITTED THIS IN WRITING)


If the truth was that sept 2001 was this
Let us just say:
the truth was:

the event was contracted, three governments knew and planned for it, and over 20,000 people were involved and all three buildings had non-conventional weapons used, would this change your world view in any way?

This is just an example.

nah, you would just deny it.

The mind will protect itself and grab onto any picture presented to it, no matter how silly to keep your world view intact.

This does mean you would be insane ( living in unreality) but at least you would be happy.

so, if you knew the REAL truth of all the other events, which are much worse than the above theoretical truth, no, you would go mad, or you would deny it and be mad.
Last edited by reuterrooter on Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:07:20, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Carlhole » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:02:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('reuterrooter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/3869117/General-George-S.-Patton-was-assassinated-to-silence-his-criticism-of-allied-war-leaders-claims-new-book.html]General George S. Patton was assassinated to silence his criticism of allied war leaders claims new book[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Telegraph', 'T')he newly unearthed diaries of a colourful assassin for the wartime Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA, reveal that American spy chiefs wanted Patton dead because he was threatening to expose allied collusion with the Russians that cost American lives.

The death of General Patton in December 1945, is one of the enduring mysteries of the war era. Although he had suffered serious injuries in a car crash in Manheim, he was thought to be recovering and was on the verge of flying home.

But after a decade-long investigation, military historian Robert Wilcox claims that OSS head General "Wild Bill" Donovan ordered a highly decorated marksman called Douglas Bazata to silence Patton, who gloried in the nickname "Old Blood and Guts"...


Sometimes I wonder idly: What if everyone had access to the complete truth of all human history in all its magnificent detail, in all its daily minutiae stretching back hundreds of thousands of years? Not the propaganda or the spin or the interpretation - but the Truth, in all its complexity and maddening shades-of-gray. What effect would that have on our perception of ourselves?


You wouldn't want to know. You would loose your mind, truthfully.


Oh, come on.

Human Beings are 98 point something-or-other identical to chimpanzees. You can learn quite a bit about human nature by studying our closest relatives. Learning all about the heinous actions of a bunch of monkeys isn't going to make your skull burst like a kernel of popcorn

But, for me, here are a couple of things that just about do that:

(1) The continual and irritating misspelling of the word "lose".

(2) Boring and useless commentary saying "the jews did it" in regards to any revisionist history.
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:27:19

Humans are not anything related to chimpanzees.
And you are incorrect, because many people who have been told the truth have lost their minds.

When you denter into dream world you have lost your mind, you are asleep and you are hypnotized, anything, to make it go away.
That is the normal response.

Projectmonarch discovered this, that mind alterations affects genetic memory, it physically changes you and it is transferable to the next generation, hot stuff.

and the normal defense is to compartmentalize trauma and lock it away in a different compartment.
Talk to anyone about 911 and they will say, oh, that is finished it is locked away lets move on they are not about to go and dig up that pain again.

it is over for them and that is what is counted on.

the truth about major world events are so heinous that no one would believe it, becuase they choose to just wave it away to make the pain stop.

Hypnosis is a distinctive, often trance-like mental state that is induced by an organized pattern of suggestions, replaying the crashes over and over and over for 24 hours, wasn't that weird?

usually verbal in nature, beginning with the suggestion of how things should be interpreted, started with the shill 20 minutes after the event who said "The collapse was due to the fires which were just too intense" implanted.

. The suggestions may be directly induced by a hypnotist in the presence of the subject, bantering of news personel "Hey that looks like a demolition!" No, No it doesn't it looks like the fires were too intense" (Corrective implantation.

but may be also be self-induced (self-hypnosis or autohypnosis/auto-suggestion). (At work everyone at the watercooler sounding smart, telling everyone "the fires were just too intense"

(Meanwhile the firefighters are still going HUH> WHA? WHA HAPPENED?


Although the long held popular view was that hypnosis is form of unconsciousness, the informed contemporary view is that it is actually a wakeful state of focused attention on 1. planes recrashing into building bam bam bam
[1] and heightened suggestibility,
the fires were too intense, the files were too intense
thefires were too intense over and over for 24 hours.

with diminished peripheral awareness
No shots of steel structures withstanding thousands of fires over history. then a full overview on Osama bin laden 40 minutes after the crash even telling us how he lives in caves and is sub human...

Before they even knew what happened, before anyn investigation.

and now?

Well, everyone is hypnotized, and the pain wall has been put up and no one is going to go to therapy to discuss it, because the psychiatrist himself will justsay, "Oh, then fires were just too intense"

While the lady in the opening was waving for help, what fire?

mass hypnosis with multiple personality through trauma, brainwashed. hopeless, never get free of this now.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:46:28

Now, for your evolutionary hypnosis:

the chimpanzee 98% was a lie, conceived on purpose.
A good mass hypnosis is accepted BECAUSE WE WANT IT.

We accept star wars because we WANT A FORCE that controls us and makes us powerful. But star wars is a LIE, it never ever happened. It was made up. It never existed, so the force is farce. MAde up, a lie. never happened, awe shucks.

Well, there are tens of thousands of people who have the force as a religion. really. They believe it exists. Because they saw a movie. What a bunch of hypnotised believers, I wonder if there is a micky mouse fan club... er how about a star trek fan club!!

Do these people want a real life or to remain hypnotized.

Men are stupid, and they deny the truth vbecause they don't want reality.

the reality is, you plant a peach you get a peach.

you put 100 animal species in a zoo, they all have sex and you get the same species, always will.

We accept many things because we want it

used car salesman sells cares BECAUSE WE WANT IT

and hell lie any lie so you have a excuse to buy it.

Once you want it it is sold.

See, people don't WANT to be good, they want no God and to just do want they want. They want evolution

so they have been lying to have it

but it isnt true.

At the end of each chromosome is a string of repeating DNA sequences called a telomere. Chimpanzees and other apes have about 23 kilobases (a kilobase is 1,000 base pairs of DNA) of repeats. Humans are unique among primates with much shorter telomeres only 10 kilobases long.7
While 18 pairs of chromosomes are ‘virtually identical’, chromosomes 4, 9 and 12 show evidence of being ‘remodeled.’5 In other words, the genes and markers on these chromosomes are not in the same order in the human and chimpanzee. Instead of ‘being remodeled’ as the evolutionists suggest, these could, logically, also be intrinsic differences because of a separate creation.
The Y chromosome in particular is of a different size and has many markers that do not line up between the human and chimpanzee.1
Scientists have prepared a human-chimpanzee comparative clone map of chromosome 21 in particular. They observed ‘large, non-random regions of difference between the two genomes.’ They found a number of regions that ‘might correspond to insertions that are specific to the human lineage.’3
These types of differences are not generally included in calculations of percent DNA similarity.

In one of the most extensive studies comparing human and chimp DNA,3 the researchers compared >19.8 million bases. While this sounds like a lot, it still represents slightly less than 1% of the genome. They calculated a mean identity of 98.77% or 1.23% differences. However, this, like other studies only considered substitutions and did not take insertions or deletions into account as the new study by Britten did. A nucleotide substitution is a mutation where one base (A, G, C, or T) is replaced with another. An insertion or deletion (indel) is found where there are nucleotides missing when two sequences are compared.


So, believe the lie because you want to, actually you are beliving the scinetists much like the population believes the NIST report.

tell me if either can be wrong?

Likely both are wrong on purpose, for the same reason they want to lie to you.

So now you can go drink beer and pork women, that is what it is all about.

airplanes and trains were made by the same manufacturer because they all have aluminum, and copper wires and carpet.

that proves it.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby Carlhole » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:51:08

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
Carlhole
 

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:55:15

If insulin works, a good engineer would use it in every creature yet each creature would be created differently..

there is no need for God to invent different kinds of insulin and different hoemones just so that people couldn't say they evolved. that is really silly.
god doesn't care what you think.

He just makes a ton of different animals with thebest engenerring possible.

Humans and mice have 93% of the same genes,.

and the fungus puffball is like 88%
it doesnt have insulin.

but believe what you like, most people believe NIST also.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 03:59:51

Clare Boothe Luce - Dame of Malta; Member, Council on Foreign Relations; former ambassador to Italy under President Eisenhower (Allied Commander who led Rome’s Crusade in Europe during the Second Thirty Years’ War (1914-1945) which included the betrayal and murder of the heroes American General Patton and the Russian General Vlasov, as both sought to overthrow the PTB Grand Inquisitor, Joseph Stalin) ;

This is old knowledge, told to us by one of the people who was involved in the process.

then titanic was purposefully built and sunk on purpose just to remove the two richest american billionares who were holding up the transfer of the financial kingdom to a one world bank in europe... they were holding up the process.

after they were removed, the federal reserve was established in america....

many more shocking things you will find out soon, it will all come out in the wash before it ends.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 04:09:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'O')h dear, oh dear, oh dear...


there is no way that random chemicals can unite and make all L-isomer amino acids, ther is no wayu.

yet all our proteins are all L-isomer amino acids,

Compoanies cannot make L-isomer amino acids for sale, they have to use living enzymes to manufacture them, impossible without enzymes taken from living cells.

spontaneousn generation of life is an impossiblilty.

when amino acids are manufacutred you always get 50% R and 50% L 1x10^20 L and 1x10^20 R now from that, make one protein of 20,000 daltons with L isomer exclisivly.

Can you flip a coin heads 1x10^35 times in a row?

then you can create a human.

one tails destroys the whole protein.

Hey, don't worry, just ignore it.
Dream on.

A billion universes boing through a billion cycles a billion times a second for a billion years would not make ONE AMOEBA .

yet all plants and animals are all L isomers, imaging that,

oh

except prokaryotes (germs) they are R isomer with critical proteins.

so not only can a germ not be made, once you make a germ you can't just mirro the whole thing and make plants

it all is silly.

dream on.
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby errorist » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 04:29:35

You are bit untrue. Truth is absolute. The only thing that depends from observer of truth is the questions he is asking while getting true answers (sampling the historical flow of truth). But the naked truth includes all facts and intentions and motivations etc. All states of information, energy and materia in time. Unsampled, continous flow.
There is one more thing to consider - sometimes humans lie to themselves making various funny assumptions (Rising from dead, Earth is flat, etc) but the tape of truth itself is unchanged by those lies.


May I ask from you - who are better at lying: men or women? Or are they equal?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')The broader issue, IMHO, is that more significant issues of history are not facts - Who shot whom on what date. They're much more nuanced questions of intent, motivation, and experience. We have this idea of narrative history - that there is one true version of what happened. For most of history, I think the reality is that the truth of what happened depends largely on who was doing the observing. I think that most of history has many different true versions. The problem for most of us, is that we've been told a version of history by the most privileged in our society. It's their truth, but for most of us, it's not our truth. Because we don't own newspapers or textbook publishers, most of us have lost touch with our own history. I wonder if that will change in the internet age. Perhaps the ability of people to tell their own story and put it out there for people to read, maybe that will change the path of how history gets written.
Last edited by errorist on Mon 22 Dec 2008, 04:41:12, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
errorist
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed 28 May 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Gen. George S. Patton Was Assassinated?

Postby reuterrooter » Mon 22 Dec 2008, 04:38:45

And sometimes when witnesses see someone rising from the dead, the leaders pay 50 soldiers to lie and say his body was stolen by desciples.

So you can't believe everything you hear, but when you have witnesses, and when excavation has hundreds of stone tombs engraved with the name of then person witnessed to rise from the dead, you can't help but believe that people would not give their lives up for known a lie, but that they saw something miraculous.

Nero even burned down a city to set up the disciples to be killed, (typical Roman empire trick false flag, they keep doing these kinds of things)

anyway the way to discover the truth is witnesses, and when witnesses write letters to their friends and they all match in different parts of the world, they are original. Truth and facts is good enough for me.

Whereas druidism, hinduism shamanism has no witnesses, no mathcing scripts around the world, and it has various styles that contradict each other,. and is a bunch of malarky, since ther goal is to achieve a personal worshipful level, so you can see secondary gain there.

There is no secondary gain being a crhistian, everyone hates you so if you are a true humble poor christian, you believe just because it is true.

There is secondary gain being a rich pastor with buildings of million dollar glass. So when you see this, you can know they dont follow the Bible, so leave.

humble, poor, self denying is the truth.
Sometimes you believe the liars that call them selves pastors so you could go wrong,. but the best way is to believe the word, it is never wrong. that means you will be booted from a church sooner or later when you dont put up with their money grubbing selfish ways...
User avatar
reuterrooter
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun 21 Dec 2008, 04:00:00

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron