"Catholics cure the sick, teach children, help the weak, and feed the poor."
Yes and they make a good living with it. And that's why they make sure that the people stay sick, uneducated, weak and hungry. Because if they were'nt they wouldn't need the church. That's why nobody in Europe is going to a church anymore, they don't need this humbug.
"Fortunately" there is no lack of supply of poor people in other parts of the world...
PeakOil is You
THE Pope Thread (merged)
by threadbear » Mon 04 Apr 2005, 21:14:54
Lorenzo, So you were serious? Oh lord.
Liberation theologists were largely outspoken Marxists? According to whose version of reality? They supported unions, and communitarian interests. They supported the rights of people to organize to defend themselves. Anyone seeking freedom must be regarded as Marxist, if this is the case. Jesus himself, who overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple---Marxist.
Labelling anyone who wishes to organize to escape persecution and oppression is typical of something the US right wing governments have been doing for years. Funny you are so hip to propaganda in some circumstances, but blind to the Roman Catholic use of propaganda.
The ironic thing is, groups of people world wide, labelled communist, ended up being targeted, and then they HAD to join the Communist camp simply for the protection and resources they offered. This happened in Viet Nam. The Viet Cong were nationalists who needed the resources the Chinese offered just to keep fighting, after they were labelled Communist and targeted. The Communism came after the fact. They started out being nationalists and ended up being pushed into the Communist camp.
The pope was largely credited, through symbolism alone, with bringing down the Berlin Wall. I assume he was more hostile about Communism than Fascism, as the church coexists perfectly with the fasism of the modern era. I doubt, by his actions alone that he had any grave fear of fascism. Totalitarian religion respects totalitarian states that in turn support it. It's a mutual back scratching and admiration society.
Your post is a rationalization of the atrocities perpetuated or created by the Catholic church. Your understanding of the church supporting indiginous people is seriously lacking. Read "I Rigoberto Menchu", the autobiography of a freedom fighter in Guatemala, and her dealings with the church.
The church is always there to apply a bandaid to a wound, but they would never question the underlying cause, because it could potentially alienate the tithing wealthy. Their pathetic "helpful" self image surely extends all the way to hell, where the cardinals have likely set up popsicle stands to deal with the heat.
I'm as conservative as you, possibly more so. But honestly, returning to the Middle Ages as a protest against rampant consumerism seems unnecessary. You are solving several problems with your conservatism, but creating many more by hanging onto the rotting corpse of Catholicism. Sh**, create your own religion. You're smart and passionate enough. God, what a waste.
Liberation theologists were largely outspoken Marxists? According to whose version of reality? They supported unions, and communitarian interests. They supported the rights of people to organize to defend themselves. Anyone seeking freedom must be regarded as Marxist, if this is the case. Jesus himself, who overturned the tables of the money changers in the temple---Marxist.
Labelling anyone who wishes to organize to escape persecution and oppression is typical of something the US right wing governments have been doing for years. Funny you are so hip to propaganda in some circumstances, but blind to the Roman Catholic use of propaganda.
The ironic thing is, groups of people world wide, labelled communist, ended up being targeted, and then they HAD to join the Communist camp simply for the protection and resources they offered. This happened in Viet Nam. The Viet Cong were nationalists who needed the resources the Chinese offered just to keep fighting, after they were labelled Communist and targeted. The Communism came after the fact. They started out being nationalists and ended up being pushed into the Communist camp.
The pope was largely credited, through symbolism alone, with bringing down the Berlin Wall. I assume he was more hostile about Communism than Fascism, as the church coexists perfectly with the fasism of the modern era. I doubt, by his actions alone that he had any grave fear of fascism. Totalitarian religion respects totalitarian states that in turn support it. It's a mutual back scratching and admiration society.
Your post is a rationalization of the atrocities perpetuated or created by the Catholic church. Your understanding of the church supporting indiginous people is seriously lacking. Read "I Rigoberto Menchu", the autobiography of a freedom fighter in Guatemala, and her dealings with the church.
The church is always there to apply a bandaid to a wound, but they would never question the underlying cause, because it could potentially alienate the tithing wealthy. Their pathetic "helpful" self image surely extends all the way to hell, where the cardinals have likely set up popsicle stands to deal with the heat.
I'm as conservative as you, possibly more so. But honestly, returning to the Middle Ages as a protest against rampant consumerism seems unnecessary. You are solving several problems with your conservatism, but creating many more by hanging onto the rotting corpse of Catholicism. Sh**, create your own religion. You're smart and passionate enough. God, what a waste.
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threadbear - Expert
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by erl » Tue 05 Apr 2005, 00:47:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')atholics cure the sick, teach children, help the weak, and feed the poor.
Not one other group of people does this. If you know one, please let me know.
Not one other group of people does this. If you know one, please let me know.
Hmmm.
Samaritan's Purse (not a catholic organization)
American Friends Service Committee (not a catholic organization)
World Vision (not a catholic organization)
Hope Seeds (not a catholic organization)
Crossroads (a Canadian non-catholic charitable organization)
Numerous independent church missions groups.
Just to name a few. Google it.
erl
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by Ebyss » Tue 05 Apr 2005, 17:05:25
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')atholics cure the sick, teach children, help the weak, and feed the poor.
Not one other group of people does this. If you know one, please let me know.
Not one other group of people does this. If you know one, please let me know.
I'm just sticking my head back in here because I can't believe you think that no other "group" of people do these things Lorenzo.
Concern, Live Aid, Oxfam, Red Cross, Medecine sans Frontieres are all groups that help in the ways you have outlined. They have people from all differet religions and those without religion who help in many different ways. To simply dismiss them because it does not suit your argument is a most disrespectful and ignorant thing to do.
May I ask in what way you personally have "cured the sick, taught children, helped the weak, and fed the poor", monetary donations excluded (as you have no way of knowing exactly where your money went. Official charities are subject to audits by independent authorities, there are breakdowns of their expenditure. I'd love to see someone try that with the Catholic Church...). The Vatican takes €10 from each person visting, anybody know how many people visit the Vatican in a day? You'll get a real clear idea of how much money they make from just one of their many churches.
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
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Ebyss - Tar Sands
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by lorenzo » Tue 05 Apr 2005, 20:11:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', 'I')'m just sticking my head back in here because I can't believe you think that no other "group" of people do these things Lorenzo.
Concern, Live Aid, Oxfam, Red Cross, Medecine sans Frontieres are all groups that help in the ways you have outlined.
Concern, Live Aid, Oxfam, Red Cross, Medecine sans Frontieres are all groups that help in the ways you have outlined.
I agree that these organizations technocratically "manage" some problems, but they do it in a very piecemeal way, according to very reductionistic agendas, and without offering any kind of broader vision.
Take Live Aid. That was the outcry of a few concerned citizens who were witnessing what was happening in Ethiopia in one certain moment in time.
All the while, the Churches in Ethiopia had been working there for ages, bettering the lives of as many people as humanly possible. No big media show, no "sudden" charity, no momentaneous, shortlived solidarity; but total, enduring and ever present commitment.
This is something totally different. I'm not saying these secular organizations aren't doing an excellent job, all I'm saying is that they don't have a broader vision, and that therefor they don't really address the roots of the problems they're fighting.
Medecins sans Frontieres does not question the causes of war, it does not question the ways to create a more peaceful world, it is not involved in curing the minds of suffering people. It is a technocratic, manegerial organization, a machine of modernity.
In that sense I feel very comfortable in saying that the Catholic Church is the only organization on the planet (aside from other religious organizations in other religions) who try to change the entire atmosphere in which these evil manifestations of man appear.
That's something totally different than sending food aid to a crisis zone.
Catholic priests live with their people all the time. They don't just show up when a disaster strikes them. They are there 24/7. The organizations you mention are not.
The Beginning is Near!
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