[ReverseEngineer]

There was yet another thread recently started regarding how unprepared most people are for the economic troubles ahead of us. Brought up in the OP was how most folks have little in the way of cash, little in the way fo stored food, and little prospect for being able to get cash OZr food once TSHTF. And so once again the "robust" preppers chimed in with their preps, which often are quite astonishing in scope.

"I've got 1000 acres of prime farmland paid off free and clear. 6 wells on my property and a fast running stream with a small Hydro Plant. 4 Windmills and 50 Marine Deep Cycle Batteries for power, 10,000 Gallons of Diesel in underground tanks and a miniature Nuclear Reactor on order from Toshiba. A chemical processing plant to make Biodiesel and refine it and a Swamp on the property adjacent to mine producing Methane. For protection we have an armory with 50 AK-47s and 1000 RPGs, along with night scopes and kevlar."

And so forth and so on.

I find myself alternately impressed and astounded by these preps, jealous of them or appalled by the fact someone could personally consume so much wealth they could set up something like this for themself. Depends on my mood and how the poster writes about his or her Super Doomstead.

One thing it really does show is how egregiously skewed the board is in terms of the economic class of its members. Just in my reading of the board and a rough tally of active posters who describe their wealth, I have at least a dozen or so out of 100 or so active posters that have to be worth well over $10M if they are being truthful aout all their preps. Many more fit into a very high paid class of technology workers in the old economy who probably make well into the 6 figures each year and have pretty nice if more moderate Doomsteads to retreat to when TSHTF. Of course the Big Boys look down their noses at these more moderate doomsteads and pronounce them Unfit because no they don't have sufficient Power Generation Capacity once the grid goes down or no they aren't storing their food properly or whatever.

You also have a class of people who are less financially well off but come from at least a couple of generations of people who live on Grandad's Farm and can tell you stories about Grandad and how he kept the farm going and gee isn't it great to live on the Farm don't you wish you did also?

I'm not going to throw stones at all these folks without throwing a few at myself, I am as guilty of bragging about my preps as anyone else and promoting the boonies of Alaska as the cat's pajama's of Doomstead States. The reality is of course that most people can't move to Alaska, most people don't still live on Grandad's Farm and most people do not have the economic wherewithal to be buying a farm and setting it up with Windmills and Photovoltaics and all the rest of the Doom Provisions deemed essential by the Prepper Gurus.

The Generational differences and gap here in possibilities is enormous as well, you have a few young folks either still in college or just starting out their careers wondering just where to go while at the same time you have aging Baby Boomers crowing about their wonderful doomsteads. The lucky ones of this age group have parents who own a house free and clear somewhere, but they first off don't really want to move back in with mom and dad and second can't convince mom and dad to prep up and make the house Doom Ready. So they parade around Europe or Canada looking for "eco-villages" to start their lives in as Permaculture Specialists.

Anyhow, it is a constant temptation for me to deconstruct anybody's doom plan, as others here will deconstruct my own periodically when we get into one of those Feather Puffing "Who is more Robustly Prepared" competitions. Particularly irksome to me more than those who live on Grandad's farm are the clearly outrageously rich folks who bought their way into this sense of security basically by sucking wealth from everyone else over the last 20 or 30 years. I'm supposed to be glad for them that they were so smart and made all this money so they can now ride out the storm in relative comfort? What?

The bottom line for me I guess in making my Good-Evil evaluation on your Doomstead and your Plans is on how you intend on using said Doomstead. If your plan is to use it to help as many people as you can and to make it a lifeboat for your community, I support this idea 100% even if you made your money through running a factory in Mexico where you paid 10 cents an hour to Mexican children. On the other hand, if your intention is to hole up in your bunker while everybody around you starves and you have 30 years worth of canned goods in your larder, then I hold great hope that the Zombies will overrun your farm and you will be Barbecued for dinner.

99.9% of people out there, even if they were Peak Oil members and read every good Prep thread on here would not be able to do any part of it, past maybe buying a couple of months worth of food. Good grief, most of them are in debt and barely are able to make monthly bill to begin with, much less buy a whole bunch of cool preps or sell their McMansion now to buy a Farm in Kansas. If you had the foresight to do that a few years ago, more power to you but its quite a pointless idea now for anyone to try, except a very few people who can still get some liquid cash out of their Hedge Fund, and that is getting fewer all the time as Hedge Funds suspend their redemptions because they simply do not have the money.

IMHO, if you are a person who saw this coming and did have the means and the wherewithal to prep up and did so, now you have taken on yourself an enormous responsibility to your community. Most of them didn't have your means, most of them weren't as smart as you were. Are you going to leave them out in the cold because of that and let them become Zombies? It is your obligation now to help the people of your community to the best of your ability to do so. If you do that, then when the time comes for you to meet your maker and the Final Determination is made on your life here on this Earth as to whether you were a Good Man or an Evil Man, you will pass muster as a Good Man and you will walk into Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven. If you choose to reserve it all for yourself and leave others in your community hung out to dry, then you will Burn in Everlasting Torment in the Fires of Hell.

My Sermon for the Day from the Pale Rider, the Preacher with a Gun.

Reverse Engineer

[davep]

I'm in the "moderate doomstead, technology worker" camp.

I agree that, where possible, you should be trying to set an example for others to follow and getting involved with the community, rather than just trying to look after number one. This is not merely for altruistic reasons, but also because you have less chance of getting lynched by the locals.

I'm not sure that we are bragging when mentioning preps. It's probably useful for others who are just starting on this path. However, there is maybe an element of mutual reinforcement, to tell ourselves that we haven't done something monumentally stupid.

My main problem is that I don't have enough time to get things done at the doomstead (with being away during the week). So many plans, so little time...

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'T')here was yet another thread ........ .......................................IMHO, if you are a person who saw this coming and did have the means and the wherewithal to prep up and did so, now you have taken on yourself an enormous responsibility to your community. Most of them didn't have your means, most of them weren't as smart as you were. Are you going to leave them out in the cold because of that and let them become Zombies? It is your obligation now to help the people of your community to the best of your ability to do so. [s]If you do that, then when the time comes for you to meet your maker and the Final Determination is made on your life here on this Earth as to whether you were a Good Man or an Evil Man, you will pass muster as a Good Man and you will walk into Everlasting Glory in the Kingdom of Heaven. If you choose to reserve it all for yourself and leave others in your community hung out to dry, then you will Burn in Everlasting Torment in the Fires of Hell.

My Sermon for the Day from the Pale Rider, the Preacher with a Gun.[/s]
Reverse Engineer

[Jack]

Darkness take the community.

Those with means can afford protective services. Ruthless, merciless protection.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A')s to the sermon on the end save it for someone in doubt. I'll worry about the pearly gates when I get to the end of the line.

[StormBringer]

I am a ordained minister and I have to say...

God helps those who help themselves.

The point of most post from myself about my prep is more mutual comfort and support not bragging. In a world that you cant save In a time you cant change, faced with choices with no "GOOD" answer.

You will as will we all make hard choices. Help who we can, but the realization that you cant help everyone is an inescapable truth. That truth is beyond painful but still very very true. And no-one and i mean no-one will be in any position to judge choices. I promise it is easier to say help the neighbors when like R.E. and I, only have a few. But if you are in a city or even a town how r u going to help all of them.

The other things that effect your choices are how many are you already taking care of. For myself its 6 so my protective plate is quite full already. If it were just me, yes id be able to prep to help a few extra for the neighbors but as it stands I'll be lucky to finish what I deem to be a "must have" list before it all hits.

My advice to anyone is help who you can. Do not help to the point of hanging yourself and everyone with you. You may have doomed them and yourself without reason, their is no one to say that if you take them in and all die that, they might have gone down two more houses and found some one who had less people to take care of and more food stores and all will live. If they might survive with out you, but "none" will survive if you help, then you did more harm than good.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', 'A')s to the sermon on the end save it for someone in doubt. I'll worry about the pearly gates when I get to the end of the line.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')As to community leadership I've been a selectman, a lister(Tax assesor)justice of the peace and a volunteer fireman. I get up in front of people on a regular basis. Its a lot harder persuading adults then it is children. as soon as you become senoros or preachy their eyes glaze over. I have moved my position onto the floor of town meeting and had the majority vote to pass the motion. Have you?

[SpringCreekFarm]

I've never felt like I was bragging when describing my preps. Actually I don't really like to call them preps. I've always wanted to live this lifestyle and it is more about what I enjoy in life rather than that I'm afraid I have to prepare for.

I don't feel like I took anyones wealth by living simpler and building up my farm. I've worked for everything I own and if someone comes by one day and tries to take it from me, so be it. They'll be in for some resistance.

I'm personally happy for guys Like deMolay who claim to have it made in the shade. I've been blessed by lacking the jealous gene. I don't get upset or envious when someone has it better than me whether they worked for it or not. That is their thing, life an situation and you have your own.

I also don't feel a responsibility to look after those who chose a different lifestyle than mine and may suffer when things get bad. I'll help anyone I can but will not put my family in dire straits to do it.

I do what I do happily and without guilt, greed or jealousy. So don't paint me with that brush RE.

[Quinny]

I've moved from a position where I was just thinking of saving my immediate family although working with others in the community to one where I'm trying to look to a more co-operative future and become more involved at a community level. This has been partially forced onto me by being unable to sell my place, but it's always been the way I've worked. After the initial fear and even thoughts of 'not telling' people about PO, I'm now trying to get people to understand and buy in to the idea of preps.

This has had it's difficulties, but although initially I was looked upon as being a total lunatic, I'm finding that people are much more receptive due to the economic mess we're in.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'S')o now you want to make this a one-upmanship contest of ledership skills rather than a one-upmanship contest of preps?


Reverse Engineer

[StormBringer]

A poll might be interesting. But with what questions?

I have some suggestions.
1 Do you feel it is the "Knowing" responsibility to inform the masses
2 Do you feel it is our responsibility or duty to take care of others

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'I') do what I do happily and without guilt, greed or jealousy. So don't paint me with that brush RE.

[cudabachi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '
')

I find myself alternately impressed and astounded by these preps, jealous of them or appalled by the fact someone could personally consume so much wealth they could set up something like this for themself.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', 'I') do what I do happily and without guilt, greed or jealousy. So don't paint me with that brush RE.

[sittinguy]

R.E. ,, I am a little stunned by your, share or you might go to hell rant. Everyone, no matter how poor can do basic preps EVERYONE.

So the same folks that thought you were a doomer nutcase will be regaurding you as a god and begging for food and advice, but it will be to late, SCREW THAT.

I ONLY have enough for my family.

When I mention prpes to close freinds and family, THEY LAUGH.
And then they go buy a flat screen TV.

SCREW THEM. They can eat that flat screen for all I care.

I don't believe in Hell anyway. I am a good person, and do believe in karma. but thats different.

One of my future purchases is going to be some food bars. That is what I will be handing out to freinds and family. Not the good stuff that I struggled for 2 years for. I have envisioned the point where little ones might be in need, and just the thought of sending them away empty handed is heartbreaking. Knowing I had food stored. So the food bar idea is the best I can come up with for my budget. But for adults in need, NO WAY. If they choose to keep their heads in the sand, then that is where it need to stay.

Even at this point there is time to prep a little.

Sorry R.E. even for a super rich prepper, there are WAY WAY to many sheeple to help.

NO ONE I PERSONALLY KNOW HAS PREPS!!!! NOBODY!!!

It almost makes me cry sometimes to think of some of my friends that have kids.
What the hell are they going to do I think to myself?
They have NOTHING. And I don't have enough to help them.

All I can do is help my family and protect them and what I have.

[mos6507]

I think there is a risk of mainstream peak oil awareness causing a panic which could throw all our plans into turmoil. In the end there will be competition for resources and people have to decide where they want to draw their imaginary borders for their sanctuaries. Should it just be around their property, their town, county, state? I don't think it can reasonably encompass the globe. I wish I were wrong. Even if it takes a couple decades to reach the last act, we'll get there and it won't be pretty. When we do, it's all about being in the most strategic position.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'W')hen we do, it's all about being in the most strategic position.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '
')You're a bit black and white with this Good/Evil thing. Such simplistic thinking is below you, RE.

[Ludi]

I think most people (in the "First World") can make significant preparation for hard times, if they make it a priority. My household does not make a high income (working class/lower middle class), but we were able to acquire emergency preparations over a period of years. People may be able to work with family and friends if they discuss the issue in terms of preparation for natural disaster or economic troubles and not "peak oil."

Just my opinion.