[Minvaren]

Not sure if this is the perfect place for this post, but given the subject matter, it might be. The question comes out of a post by Cid_Yama, which echoed some feelings I'd been trying to process for some time.

When we look in the rear-view mirror of time, will we be able to point to the last quarter of 2008 and say "that period of time put the final bullet into Western (American) civilization" ?

I'm strongly leaning towards "yes." The system as we know it has been unsustainable for some time, and this time we're managing to take the whole world down with us due to globalization. There is no plan to address the fundamentals of the whole mess either, which means that man's tradition of short-sightedness will continue unabated for now. My hope is that we have some years of slide rather than an abrupt cliff ahead of us, but it's relatively certain that the West's standard of living is about to drop permanently.


Your thoughts/feelings?

[cipi604]

I'm afraid that the good times are gone forever. But don't worry because 99% don't care/get it/think about it and so on.
So actually 99% of the people are a drag if WE want to change something. Just too many!

[eastbay]

Not yet. Relax, this is only a sneak preview of the Ride of the Four Horsemen. A partial recovery of some sort will commence at some point in the fairly near future.

Remember, we still get to ignite another trillion bbls of the Good Stuff. And we'll figure out a way to very quickly burn the next trillion bbls.

This current downturn won't be The sudden permanent slide, much as it now appears this is exactly what's happening.

Fear not. We still get to squeeze a few more happy years out of this endowment.


After that. Run.

[Serial_Worrier]

All you doomers are making lots of assumptions.

*nuclear fission reactors, this will help build up electricity capacity needed to replace FF vehicles with electric. However you still need FF engine trucks for tasks that require more power then electric motors are capable.

*nuclear fusion in 30-50 years will solve our electricity needs forever

[mos6507]

We can all hope that energy descent is slow enough and there is enough of a buffer in the system that we won't feel outright pain for a few decades. However, none of the experts think we have that much time left. Remember that we're dealing with a perfect storm of problems. Peak oil is only a part of it. We have climate change and the associated environmental collapse and overpopulation to deal with. In order to get us through the century without a die-off we have to tackle all of these problems.

[Minvaren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'N')ot yet. Relax, this is only a sneak preview of the Ride of the Four Horsemen. A partial recovery of some sort will commence at some point in the fairly near future.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Minvaren', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'N')ot yet. Relax, this is only a sneak preview of the Ride of the Four Horsemen. A partial recovery of some sort will commence at some point in the fairly near future.

[da23]

For a few seconds I thought those purple words were a link
To Donna Summer..... Knock on wood lol

oh well back to the grind

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cipi604', '
')So actually 99% of the people are a drag if WE want to change something. Just too many!

[outcast]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') seriously doubt it. The disco era was the absolute peak of Western Civilization, in terms of per capita energy use, and that will be impossible to surpass.

[Minvaren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Minvaren', 'O')h, I'm certain that a partial recovery will occur at some point. It's just whether it will be of historical significance (surpassing our previous peak culture point), when all is said and done.

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'I') seriously doubt it. The disco era was the absolute peak of Western Civilization, in terms of per capita energy use, and that will be impossible to surpass.

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bratticus', '
')If

[TreebeardsUncle]

Oil is down to concerns about a recession.

Note that for every 14% change in the price of gasoline, demand rises or falls 1%. So, just as it takes a huge run-up in price to effect a small fall-off in demand. So a small decline in demand leads to a big fall in price.

I doubt if the price will be going to $25/gallon as we will be switching over to the February futures by the 15th or so and mid winter is the time of year demand for oil starts to run up because the refinerers are switching over to their summer blends of gasoline and deisel etc.

g