[lorenzo]

How about solar chimneys in the Sahara? Very cheap, very feasible, very powerful. An ocean cable from the Sahara to Europe, the USA and one to China is very doable. And a million times more feasible than lunar power stations.

Still, this kind of lunar fantasy concepts is important. They show us how much better earthly solutions are.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n fact, isn't the U.S. flag still flying up there?

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I wonder how long it would take to nudge a medium sized asteroid into a geosynchronous orbit.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Oh come on, you don’t honestly believe the U.S. succeeded in fooling the world by faking the moon landings do you?

[Andy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Johndenver', 'A')nother problem is energy storage. What do you do when sun goes down on the Sonoran Desert? This is a very severe problem with all terrestrial solar. The solar has to be parasitic on a waste generating process, like nuclear or coal.

[cube]

Why should we limit ourselves to the moon. I propose we construct a dyson sphere!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is an artificial hollow sphere of matter around a star designed to capture nearly all of the star's radiated energy for industrial use.

[Omnitir]

Why bother? The governments/big corporations/stone masons or someone already have working perpetual motion/free energy machines ready to release at the last moment. They keep them in the same building as the equipment used to fake the moon landings, the alien spacecrafts, Elvis, and the Star Gate.

[mortifiedpenguin]

Haha. Some people actually believe we never went to the moon. Just so you know, we have. I can prove it right now. Fear:

Moon Hoax Debunked'd

[Prometheus]

It is my belief that within a few years time, building solar panels on the Moon could be done far easier than before, and the simple reason is personal fabricators. Now, the holy grail is using these fab-labs to reproduce themselves, which engineers are very close to achieving.

This is mainly a thought experiment.

My proposal has a lunar base launched, which will house a hydroponics unit, and quarters for perhaps up to four people, all engineers. This would work with with just telepresence from Earth too, and without the base.

The main machines to be launched to the Moon will be a solar-powered fab-lab and a solar-powered lunar dust mining machine. From here, building the solar panels will simply be an exercise in computer programming. Once deployed, the mining machine will begin mining the lunar dust for more materials. These materials will then be shipped to the personal fabricators, which will replicate itself. These two fabricators will then replicate themselves. One of the fabricators will design more minin equipment. When there are about eight fabricators, then there are more things that can be built, such as robotic constructors. It is possible to make a rocket entirely of lunar material, using solid rocket fuel (like the boosters on the space shuttle) using metals and oxygen. The robotic constructors can take the rocket parts constructed by the fabricators, and build a rocket.

Let's say that it takes two weeks for a fab-lab to reproduce, which is far too conservative of an estimate. If we leave out the construction of other machines such as miners, robotic constructors, etc., then we can have an extremely robust manufacturing system in a year. If each fabricator reproduces itself, then in less than a year, we will have 16 million fabrication units. Of course, many of these fabricators will go to work to produce other things, but in a year, there would still be millions of fabricators. Where there are enough of these fab-labs, construction of solar panels can begin, and robots will put these together.

[Bubbling_Crude]

There is another solar technology that can continue to produce energy even at night and on cloudy days: the SunDish. It uses a Stirling genset, which can be heated either with focused sunlight or by external combustion using landfill gas or methane. The Sundish was given a trial run at the Pentagon and later at the Pima Maricopa Indian reservation near Tempe, Arizona. At just 20-25kW per unit, it won't be powering the entire grid anytime soon, but it may provide a good solution for remote areas, industrial parks, etc.

[Devil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bubbling_Crude', 'T')he Sundish was given a trial run at the Pentagon

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bubbling_Crude', 'T')he Sundish was given a trial run at the Pentagon

[Bubbling_Crude]

I'm not sure where the sudden focus on the Department of Defense came in. The SunDish was demonstrated at the Pentagon (yes, DoD), but it was a DOE (Department of Energy) project, coordinating the efforts of STM, SAIC, and others. There was and is nothing whatever militarily oriented about this technology.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bubbling_Crude', 'I')'m not sure where the sudden focus on the Department of Defense came in. The SunDish was demonstrated at the Pentagon (yes, DoD), but it was a DOE (Department of Energy) project, coordinating the efforts of STM, SAIC, and others. There was and is nothing whatever militarily oriented about this technology.

[Bubbling_Crude]

It's ridiculous to assume everything has a military connection as well. By your reasoning, biodiesel will be a 'military solution' because it is being used in some army vehicles. Not everything has a conspiratorial slant to it, despite the best efforts of some here to paint it that way.

On January 26th a demonstration of the SRP "SunDish" was presented by Salt River Project. Present were engineers from Scientific Applications International Corp. (SAIC), DTE Biomass Energy, Arizona Public Service company (APS), and representatives from the American Hydrogen Association, the Arizona Solar Energy Association, and other interested parties.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bubbling_Crude', 'I')t's ridiculous to assume everything has a military connection as well. By your reasoning, biodiesel will be a 'military solution' because it is being used in some army vehicles. Not everything has a conspiratorial slant to it, despite the best efforts of some here to paint it that way.

[Bubbling_Crude]

On Peak Oil happening soon, and of the US's intention of launching warfare on energy-rich regions around the planet, I have no doubt. But to summarily pronounce SunDish or other technologies as somehow unfit because of a perceived connection with the military-industrial complex is misguided at best. This technology was around before DOE funding arrived, and has survived since its withdrawal.

The SunDish is a unique application of thermal, rather than photovoltaic, solar power. The ability of its Stirling motor genset to continue producing power at night or on cloudy days makes it that much better. It is one technology that has been extensively tested in real world conditions, and it works now.

LSP and other exotic technologies may eventually produce results, but as we both agree, the Peak draws nigh, and we need solutions soon. Or yesterday, preferably. I do not believe that this solution will arrive in the form of a single miraculous invention or innovation, but from the continued development of numerous technologies already available. A singular pie-in-the-sky concept such as LSP, or cold-fusion, or zero-point energy, is highly unlikely to provide our energy needs in the near to midterm. And in the meantime, the energy resources required of such a venture will be increasingly needed to produce food and heat for the surviving population.

[oliveoil]

How about building a lot of space elevators (they only cost about $20bn apparently...) It would be easy then to ship materials up into space and create huge solar cell platforms. Sunlight is more potent up there so we could generate more energy this way.

Is this feasable?

[Caoimhan]

Where the hell did you pull the "20bn" number from? We don't yet have the material science to be able to build one.

[oliveoil]

Ok, the number is $5 billion... but projected time is about 12 years to build one..



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