[JohnDenver]

You're gonna love this. This is the "Y2K TEOTWAWKI" commercial from 1999. Ignore the Y2K references, and pretend that it's the "Day After Peak Oil".

Doomer heaven!!

http://www.rollingviolation.com/video/f ... oggers.mov

[MattSavinar]

John,

Why are you so obessed with proving the "doomers" - like the folks at the that bastion of extremist civilizaiton-hating, collapse-craving, ecofanaticism, Goldman Sachs, - to be wrong?

It reminds me of a preacher who goes into the gay bars to make sure all the guys there understand that they are on their way to hell. And in order to make sure they fully understand the ramifications of their behavior, he goes back again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again . . . and again.

Come on JD, come out of the "closet of cornacopuism" (sp?) already and join us out here on the "dance floor of doom." If you'd like, I can have my friends Monte and Aaron show you how things work in our world.

You won't know till you try!

Matt

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I absolutely love it!!!! Thanks for the giggle!

[Doly]

John, I've been wondering for a while if you are an alternate personality of one of the big posters here. Playing Devil's advocate can be lots of fun, I imagine.

[BabyPeanut]

5-star rating!

[Wildwell]

There is such a thing as a self fulfilling prophecy…

http://www.sosuave.com/quick/tip316.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story ... 20,00.html

Who knows the optimists might break off into parallel universe at the quantum level: A post peak world with glinting solar panels, green and really quite pleasant.

[dbarberic]

I want to hear some educated opinions on my plan:

I have a $273K house with $174K mortgage and a $99K open home equity line of credit with a zero balance.

With about $127K in 401K/IRAs and $37K in liquid available funds, I do not have quite enough to pay off the mortgage when TSHTF. Also, when TSHTF I probably will not be able to dump the house either because the market will be flooded with foreclosed houses.

I was thinking that one strategy could be to extract my equity out of the house using the home equity line of credit and then sticking the bank with the house. Then use the combined funds to scoop up a cheaper house for cash. After all, the home equity line of credit is tied to my current house as collateral and anything I use to purchase (i.e. another house) with the funds from the home equity line of credit is unable to be repossessed.

The only risks that I could think of are:
*As TSHTF houses are dumped on the market from foreclosures driving down market values for everyone. I wonder if the bank will lower my home equity line of credit to account for the reduction in market value. I have seen banks raise credit amounts, but never lower them. I guess anything is possible.

*If I stick the bank with the house and the $99K in home equity credit, won’t the bank come after me for the different between what I borrowed from them and the market value in which the house is eventually sold for? I’ve read that they are legally allowed to do that, but very rarely historically have ever done that on foreclosures.

*My money is worthless anyways due to other unforeseen circumstances: great depression, complete dollar collapse, etc.

[RonMN]

Rather than cash...you could rent a full size winnebago, fill it with everything inside your house & bug out in style

Once you get to where you're going...remove the license plates & cammo paint it.

[strider3700]

It depends. How much of a doomer are you?

I'm very doomer. So when you stick the bank with a house and a maxed out credit line that you can't/won't make payments on I'd expect you to be tracked down and placed into a nice little work camp to work off your debts.

Perhaps you can get away with it though

[SinisterBlueCat]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', '
')I was thinking that one strategy could be to extract my equity out of the house using the home equity line of credit and then sticking the bank with the house. Then use the combined funds to scoop up a cheaper house for cash. After all, the home equity line of credit is tied to my current house as collateral and anything I use to purchase (i.e. another house) with the funds from the home equity line of credit is unable to be repossessed.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'I') want to hear some educated opinions on my plan:

[rogerhb]

Even during a depression there will be plenty of lawyers, accountants and auditors wanting to balance the books. Hey, they need a job too!

[spear]

It would be easier and wiser to do what you plan to do when tshtf,now.
But plan A does have its charm,from where Im sitting.

[Hawkcreek]

--

[Pops]

Now - now folks, “Messages exhorting others to commit illegal acts: Murder, extortion, and any other felony are expressly forbidden.”

I’m no lawyer but I can only assume The Man frowns upon pumping your credit and skipping town.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic2867.html

[SurvivalAcres]

A lot of people did this during Y2K - thinking they would never have to pay the bill. Bad idea. They're still paying for their poor judgement.

It's a very bad idea to live in the doomer mindset - I've more experience with this then probably most people.... So I don't do it anymore, but you do what you want. Getting back to the point here - consider that refugees always fair poorly in crisis situations. If SHTF and THEN you decide to bug out - you will be competing with everyone else for the same resources.

Better to plan ahead and have someplace to go, or simply move there now. Either sell your house now, or go ahead and buy into something / someplace where you can go (I'm assuming here you MUST move, your present situation is untenable).

Keep in mind it takes a lot of time and work (more of these two things then money) to get a placed prepped for living under a SHTF scenario. If I was in your shoes, I'd get this planning / preparation done now, using whatever cash I had available to me.

[Kooka]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', ' ')After all, the home equity line of credit is tied to my current house as collateral and anything I use to purchase (i.e. another house) with the funds from the home equity line of credit is unable to be repossessed.

[dbarberic]

How were negative equity situations handled in the 80’s when the housing bubble popped and many did the same thing when the owners realized that they owned more on the house than what it was worth and left their house keys on the kitchen counter, walked out the front door, and never returned letting the bank take possession of the house? Were these people prosecuted? Were they considered fraudsters for doing this?

[Pops]

The difference I would think is what the DA might call intent.

If you run up the bill and then quickly forfeit you obviously had the intent to defraud.

And no, those folks weren’t prosecuted for making bad judgments – persecuted maybe, that default haunted them – it may still.

Walking away from debt doesn't happen in the age of Equifax.

[strider3700]

The bankruptcy laws change in about 3 weeks in the states. I believe that walking away from a house won't make it any less of your problem as soon as they go in.

No idea what happened in the mid 80's.

Up here in Canada
I know one guy that had a house in a one industry town. When the mills shut down in 1999 he lost his job and had to move. Since he couldn't sell his house to anyone he went to the bank and basically gave it back. They sold the house for what they could get and applied that against his mortgage. he then got to pay off the remainder which was about 40% of the original mortgage.

In the end he worked like a dog for 4 years to pay off a house that he didn't even own and his credit rating was totalled anyways. You never get to screw the banks.

The repo firesale might just be an excellent buying time though