[PenultimateManStanding]

Was teaching some Mexican American kids today about North South relationships prior to the Civil War. These were kids who whether for language proplems or whatever are in so-called Special Ed classes. They had to answer a question, 'why did the south have slaves?' This one kid was trying to get me to tell him the answer to write down on his worksheet. I was trying the 'get them to think critically' bit and it wasn't working. I used the expression 'work in the fields' and that rang the bells for him (probably 12 years old). He said to me 'I'll never work the fields' There is a stigma attatched to the back-breaking work that Mexican immigrants do in the farmlands of America. Nobody in the world wants to do that kind of work. People who talk about a return to Agriculture in the post peak world should think about how hard-up people will be and still refuse to do what our ancestors did during the Great Depression.

[Schneider]

Too bad that permaculture isn't so widespreed than some would want ..Give me a small familly farm anyday !

God bless the lazy man ...


Schneider
French-Canadian

[PenultimateManStanding]

Yeah, Schneider, The Lazy Man! Funny thing about pain. People will embrace it in rigorous exercise because that kind of pain is ego-syntonic. Pain and humiliation is not going to go down easy. Another related question to throw out here: will there be more or less immigration after transportation fuel is scarce and expensive?

[RonMN]

humiliation is based on "have's" and "have-not's"...if i saw somebody well fed but working the field...while i was starving...i'd ask "why can't i be allowed to work the fields"???

[Schneider]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')eah, Schneider, The Lazy Man! Funny thing about pain. People will embrace it in rigorous exercise because that kind of pain is ego-syntonic. Pain and humiliation is not going to go down easy. Another related question to throw out here: will there be more or less immigration after transportation fuel is scarce and expensive?

[aldente]

"Pain and humiliation is not going to go down easy"........

end quote. Hey Preultimateman standing take a chill pill, Schneider is just being relaxed.

Everything goes down easy!

[spear]

agree with Schneider.
After a man walks 1000 klm looking for something better, he will take any work.
This is guaranteed 100 percent.

[Petro]

I only hope I can find a field to work

[gg3]

Concepts such as "stigma," along with "taboo" and "scapegoat," have no place in a civilized society. That stuff is primitive thinking, goes along with superstitions about black cats, and beliefs that the Earth is flat.

The degradation and denigration of honest labor disgusts me; product of a decadent culture on its way down the toilet.

What ever happened to the WORK ETHIC?!

(Put-money-where-mouth-is department: I just finished a nearly allnighter designing & programming & testing a couple of new functions for our telecommuter feature-set. Last night was writing a 14-page proposal for a prospective client's new PBX system. 70-hours-plus per week is common in geek-land. So yeah, I have standing to talk about work ethic.)

[Doly]

gg3, there is some difference between coding and breaking your back. The people that break their backs look at geeks and think they're sissies that sit all day and say they're working.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat ever happened to the WORK ETHIC?!

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'g')g3, there is some difference between coding and breaking your back. The people that break their backs look at geeks and think they're sissies that sit all day and say they're working.

[johnmarkos]

I think there's a difference between a satisfying day's physical labor and the abusive, back-breaking 12 hour+ labor that your student probably associates with "working the fields." Also, farm workers are regularly exposed to dangerous chemicals that endanger their health. Nobody should have to work under those conditions.

Of course, a lot of the negative associations people have with physical labor come from the lack of respect bosses and others give those who do it. One can work awfully hard and feel good about it, as long as one is treated with respect for that labor.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Back then people who were really poor had to work along side the slaves to make a living. You could tell who they were because of all the long hours they put in under the blazing sun. it turn the backs of their necks red. Hence the term "red neck".

In many ways our culture has come to think that something as honest as a hard days work is dirty as opposed to the gentleman's way of life where working up a sweat was a sign of lack of gentility. This stigma goes way past the Victorian era and is a natural progression of the way our cultures are evolving.

It will be very interesting to see the devolution of this train of thought. I think it highly unlikely that a large number of people will be able to make the transition back. We have far too much entitlement in our society, that'll make it much more acceptable for others to steal the efforts of other peoples labour.

[oowolf]

Tell me about working fields. Last October I opened up a palrty 5k sq. ft. of fallow land with a spade and broadfork and gave myself tendonitis in both forearms. Next month I get to hoe and rake it out. Must remember to pace myself.

The present population doesn't have a clue; most are walking dead.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Ask someone who is used to a lifeime of hard physical labor to program a computer or something like that and they'll not likely be very good at it: they'll just shrug it off if they don't have to do it or stress out if they do. Ask someone who has spent their lives in offices to do hard physical labor and they will freak out for sure, and physically fall apart at the seams.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

If they have the will/determination they can do it. I've been in accounting for most of my career and got laid off. I took a part time job mucking out horse stalls. It was hell, for the first week I felt like I'd been hit by a mack truck, but I did it. if you have the will you can and will do it.

However, as I tried to point out in my last post a large number of people will see it as being easier to just steal others hard work.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', 'T')ell me about working fields. Last October I opened up a palrty 5k sq. ft. of fallow land with a spade and broadfork and gave myself tendonitis in both forearms. Next month I get to hoe and rake it out. Must remember to pace myself.

The present population doesn't have a clue; most are walking dead.

[johnmarkos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')sk someone who is used to a lifeime of hard physical labor to program a computer or something like that and they'll not likely be very good at it: they'll just shrug it off if they don't have to do it or stress out if they do. Ask someone who has spent their lives in offices to do hard physical labor and they will freak out for sure, and physically fall apart at the seams.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Heilein's dictum was quite Aristocratic I would say. Not the way it is with Homo insectus.