[gt1370a]

The current crisis was caused by the government, which established the Federal Reserve, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac. It was not merely a lack of regulatory oversight.

The crisis is also being exacerbated by government actions, which continually change the rules and introduce so much uncertainty that businesses cannot make logical decisions. Their introduction of free money and forced allocation of scarce resources to their "preferred" companies also distorts the market.

I prefer free market over central planning any day.

[Dukkha]

It's interesting that once it used to be "Stalinism isn't real communism. The Soviet Union and its clients have perverted the true creed" but now it's "Turbo-capitalism isn't real capitalism. The US and its clients have perverted the true creed". In any long term analysis (one the looks beyond the number of mobile phones in your desk draw), I'm sure that capitalism will be seen to have been as much a catastrophe as Stalinism, it's just been better at hiding the deaths. Of course, capitalism has engineered such a disastrous set of ecological horrors that it's questionable whether the people or the knowledge necessary for such an analysis will be around when the time comes.

[mattduke]

If you wish to call the legalized fraud of fractional reserve banking complete with government-enforced cartelization and monopolization of the money market "free market capitalism", then yes, it's failing.

[Revi]

"The Free Market" never really existed anyway. What do you think was going on? I don't care what kind of games they play as long as we can keep a roof over our heads.

I hope we make it through this hard time that's coming.

The free market was a way to keep everybody playing the game.

[Tyler_JC]

The USSR was only communist before Stalin took over and the US stopped being capitalist when the Federal Reserve was created in 1913.

I don't see a collapse of the free market, I see a collapse of the government-created banking system.

[mos6507]

There were market crashes before 1913. Bubbles are ultimately a psychological phenomenon. It's just that this time you had the housing bubble which was fed by the secondary bubble of the mortgage backed securities and enabled by lax regulations, hence the perfect storm. Ultimately some human being is the decisionmaker here. A homebuyer decides to buy a house he can't afford because they think they can always dump it at a profit to the next guy up the pyramid. A financier sets up a CDO because they think they've found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's simple greed and wanting to "work the system". Going after some singular boogeyman rather than the root flaws in human nature only insures that this cycle repeats itself in one capacity or the next.

[Munqi]

Ive been wondering about this too. Just not in the context of the credit crisis.

Why people want the free market to be in charge of the rate we deplete our resources is just beyond me. Especially those people who are peak oil aware. How is it possible that they dont see this link?

Having someone, just about anyone, in charge is always better than having no one in charge.

[cube]

[retiredguy]

And just what does that central authority do to solve our resource problems? Insure that everyone has access to the depleting resources, further debasing their true value? That will be Obama's solution.

A number of us believe we are currently in Overshoot. A die-off of some sort must follow.

I would prefer having the ability to make my own choices of what to do rather than have some central authority dictate those choices for me.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'A')nd just what does that central authority do to solve our resource problems? Insure that everyone has access to the depleting resources, further debasing their true value? That will be Obama's solution.

A number of us believe we are currently in Overshoot. A die-off of some sort must follow.

I would prefer having the ability to make my own choices of what to do rather than have some central authority dictate those choices for me.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'A')nd just what does that central authority do to solve our resource problems? Insure that everyone has access to the depleting resources, further debasing their true value? That will be Obama's solution.

A number of us believe we are currently in Overshoot. A die-off of some sort must follow.

I would prefer having the ability to make my own choices of what to do rather than have some central authority dictate those choices for me.

[Kaj]

The only real free markets tend to exist in the third world where the IMF pretty much forces market discipline upon basic producers. The first world massively subsidizes its major industries to stay ahead of the game.

The idea that the US has a free market is totally laughable.

[dohboi]

It is an contradiction to put "free" and "market" in the same term.

Nothing remotely resembling what most people consider a market has ever existed without very strict laws and regulations. Without such laws, you do not have a market, you have thievery and armed robbery.

And as pointed out, you can get a whole lot of dog poop all over the place too. (But maybe cube can use some straw from his man to cover up the stench?)

[Quinny]

I can't see anyone defending it so far!

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'A')nd just what does that central authority do to solve our resource problems? Insure that everyone has access to the depleting resources, further debasing their true value? That will be Obama's solution.
A number of us believe we are currently in Overshoot. A die-off of some sort must follow.
I would prefer having the ability to make my own choices of what to do rather than have some central authority dictate those choices for me.

[Quinny]

We've had people saying there isn't a free market. We've had people describing things that need to be produced (I assume they're saying that you need a free market to do that).

It seems to me the 'Free Market' is not defendable.

[Munqi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'A')nd just what does that central authority do to solve our resource problems? Insure that everyone has access to the depleting resources, further debasing their true value? That will be Obama's solution.
A number of us believe we are currently in Overshoot. A die-off of some sort must follow.
I would prefer having the ability to make my own choices of what to do rather than have some central authority dictate those choices for me.

[yesec9]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Munqi', 'I')t would guide us to sustainable methods with taxes and subsididies.
A die-off does not have to follow. We can still stop it. So bring in that central authority before it is too late. The free market is the source of all of our problems and the sooner we get rid of it the sooner we can start fixing this world.
You having the ability to make your own choices does nothing to prevent this disaster and that is more important than you.

[Munqi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesec9', 'T')he free market provides many services in the most efficient manner and at the most appropriate price, but not when the game is rigged (when the gov't accepts money from big corps to tip the playing field)

[galacticsurfer]

We play a game called "Free-Market-Capitalism" with a rule book. Rules enforced by government. This is an open system however as not everybody has the same rule book. So money goes to tax havens and factories are exported. Externalities destroy the environment, workers, not accounted for inthe rules. So game gets very lopsided as the rules were not thought out to take care of China, tax havens, pollution.

TPTB have too big a stake to reboot the game under new more comprehensive rules where they would lose their wad so collapse takes place. TPTB or stakeholders or whatever all lose their pile of cash and through war or treaty or whatever game is rebooted taking new realities into account (environment, China, etc.).