[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '[')b]The Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire: A Free Audiobook A definitive work by Edward Gibbons. It's almost 20 hours long. Well worth the large download (it's free public domain). The similarities between the US and the fallen Roman empire are intriguing. (I posted this topic here because the fall of the Roman empire was largely economic and inflationary)
website link and direct audio download link

[lper100km]

How timely this thread is! I came across this quote just yesterday. (I’m presuming it is authentic)

The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.

Cicero - 55 BC

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lper100km', 'H')ow timely this thread is! I came across this quote just yesterday. (I’m presuming it is authentic)

The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.

Cicero - 55 BC

[Koyaanisqatsi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '[')b]The Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire: A Free Audiobook

A definitive work by Edward Gibbons. It's almost 20 hours long. Well worth the large download (it's free public domain). The similarities between the US and the fallen Roman empire are intriguing. (I posted this topic here because the fall of the Roman empire was largely economic and inflationary)

website link

direct audio download link

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '[')b]The Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire: A Free Audiobook

A definitive work by Edward Gibbons. It's almost 20 hours long. Well worth the large download (it's free public domain). The similarities between the US and the fallen Roman empire are intriguing. (I posted this topic here because the fall of the Roman empire was largely economic and inflationary)

[carbaunt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '[')b]The Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire: A Free Audiobook

A definitive work by Edward Gibbons. It's almost 20 hours long. Well worth the large download (it's free public domain). The similarities between the US and the fallen Roman empire are intriguing. (I posted this topic here because the fall of the Roman empire was largely economic and inflationary)

website link

direct audio download link

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'W')hile history offers lessons and insights about political patterns universal to civilization, I wouldn't use it as a mirror for the future.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', '(')I posted this topic here because the fall of the Roman empire was largely economic and inflationary)

[obixman]

First a disclaimer - I took my Roman history classes almost 40 years ago - History of the Roman Republic, History of the Roman Empire.

I'll never forget one of the things I learned in the courses...

The Roman Empire didn't fall in a day - or even by any one event. It fell by a series of anouncements like: " The Imperial Post no longer will deliver on Saturday." Followed 10 years later by "The Imperial Post no longer runs on Friday." And so on....

It was a gradual collapse (for the common person) that took a long period of time. While it is true that things happen much quicker these days, any collapse will still take some time. I still get some chills evey time the Post Office offers no more home Saturday delivery as an cost saving option.

[galacticsurfer]

Causes?

It's all just a cycle like Rabbits and sun spots.

We have no real control over these things and cannot stop the inevitable anymore than we can prevent our own deaths after 70-90 years.

A big civilization is like a cancer just expanding to stay alive. Themore it expands the longer it can live but the host can only be so big.

I bet civilizaions last 800-1000 years each but what about species? have we outlived our time like the dinosaurs maxing out brain power and complex civilizational structures like dinos maxed out size (brontos) vs. muscle (T-Rex and co.).

Have other planets gone our way and what is the next logical development of species after us, a step downwards, backwards or some low energy extremely higher developed pacifist telepathics out of a Star Trek episode (maybe disembodied).

[lper100km]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '
')Doesn't look like it:

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?p=759154

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', 'T')he Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire

[r101958]

I thought this would be a good place to post an article I read about 5 years ago. In my opinion it pretty much hits the nail on the head. Also, one thing I think it points out quite well is that although empires and society might change in some ways, human nature remains the same. I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts and reactions to it. Here it is, enjoy:

By Dennis Todd/Amelia Island

A recent radio program jolted me into recalling university history courses I had always considered somewhat tedious because I was more interested in Freud than Rome. I appreciate history now and I'm becoming convinced that it is not unidirectional, but circular, certain to replicate destiny for all who find themselves in similar circumstances.

The program's topic was about the great historical novel by Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. It's quite interesting to note that the first of three volumes was published in 1776, the same year that began the American Revolution. It's even more fascinating that

Gibbon's work seems to describe our circumstances today.

Gibbon assigns Rome's decline in part to its increasing vulnerability to barbarians who gained power by infiltrating the country and terrorizing the people, eventually decimating traditions, authority and the military.

Gibbon faults divisive beliefs; melting the spiritual glue that had held the empire together and separating Rome into two polarized political and social camps. Rome eventually became so divisive and bureaucratically paralyzed that it was unable to defend itself from its enemies.

Gibbon's historical work is massive and the causes for demise of the empire are way too complex for any brief summary.

However, he lists five primary reasons for the fall of Rome. They sound eerily familiar.

--Rapid increase of divorce, with the undermining of the sanctity of the home, which is the basis of society.

--Higher and higher taxes; the spending of money for bread and celebrations.

--The mad craze for pleasure, sports becoming every year more exciting and more brutal.

--The building of gigantic armaments, when the real enemy was within; the decadence of the people.

--The decay of religion, faith fading into mere form, losing touch with life, and becoming impotent to guide it.

We may disagree with one or more of Gibbon's reasons but it's difficult to deny how well they apply to modern America. The structure of the family has radically changed.

Marriage is being re-defined to mean anything anyone wants it to mean. Children are no longer the primary responsibility or purpose for marriage.

Government taxation divides our nation so that one half of our citizens pay little or nothing while the other half shoulders the majority of the burden. Decadence has now become cool.Pleasure and entertainment dominate our lives, corrupting the morals of our young. Terrorist barbarians build nuclear armaments while the spiritual glue holding America together gives way to relativism and value-free tolerance for things antithetical to our survival.

America's freedom and democracy have depended upon the transfer of traditions and values to our children. That role is changing. Gibbon's work is an alarming description of a how the most powerful society in the world discarded religion, values and tradition until all that was left were barbarians. Sound familiar to you too?

Dennis Todd is a licensed school psychologist who lives on Amelia Island.

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', 'T')he Decline and Fall of the Roman (and American?) Empire

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('r101958', 'I') thought this would be a good place to post an article I read about 5 years ago. In my opinion it pretty much hits the nail on the head.

--The building of gigantic armaments, when the real enemy was within; the decadence of the people.

[r101958]

Nickel -

The author is quoting Gibbon and Gibbon is writing of Rome. The author is saying there are many similarities.

In any case, I think you may have missed the point.

I heard a comment lately from someone who was amazed at the willful ignorance and seeming illiteracy displayed by some citizens. Worse yet, he elaborated, was that many who displayed these weaknesses cloaked them in boastful pride and lack of humility.

In all the history of humanity, thousands of years, never has there been society that benefited or gained strength after they flouted their affluence. Once societies adopted the attributes listed in the original article they eventually became weak and fell.

Of course we know so much more, right? We know so much more that it has changed the very essence of human nature. The five causes listed are a sign that a society is in the advanced stages of losing self control.

[Kaj]

Don't forget that a major cause of the collapse of the Roman empire had to do with energy. Food was the fuel of the day, and the astonishing size and complexity of Rome made the city completely dpendent on outside sources like Egypt. The commercial attraction of Rome ensured its kept expanding beyond its local means, and it required that the empire continually expanded in order to satisfy its hunger.

Increasing distances meant that their conquests gave Rome diminishing returns on their efforts. And, ignorant of topsoil destruction, they overworked what their lands and accelerated their demise.

IMO this basic fact of energy underlies all of the fiscal and social problems that emerged in the Roman Empire.

[deMolay]

Pretty much sums it up. Throw in energy. link

[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'P')retty much sums it up. Throw in energy. http://theburningplatform.com/economy/d ... can-empire

[Cloud9]

All of these things contributed to the decline of Rome, but it was weather that did it in. It must be remembered we were in decline in 1860 and ripping ourselves apart. We survived that. We were in decline again in the 1930's and we survived that. We need better leadership, but we will survive this.