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Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby yesplease » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 16:54:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'A')ctually, it means the electronic equivalent of the printing presses are running 24/7.

Weimar here we come.

link
Not exactly. The interest the fed is losing is inflationary, but the rest gets paid back, which isn't inflationary. I suppose if the fed gets stuck holding the bag if a bank fails that may be inflationary too, but that depends on the situation in question.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 17:00:00

<i>but the rest gets paid back</i>

hahahahahhahahaaha :lol:
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby yesplease » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 20:09:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '&')lt;i>but the rest gets paid back</i>

hahahahahhahahaaha :lol:
It sucks you're having so much trouble with the language but that's what borrowing means. ;)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')anks and dealers' overall direct borrowings from the Fed
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 21:23:18

Sorry you are having such a problem peering through the nonsense and seeing what the reality is.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby yesplease » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 22:22:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'S')orry you are having such a problem peering through the nonsense and seeing what the reality is.
Groovy man, only you, the true messiah, must know the truthiness of the situation...

[smilie=new_rainfro.gif] [smilie=icon_flower.gif]
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby perdition79 » Fri 17 Oct 2008, 22:24:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercrap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', 'U')ntil I see semi-trucks backing up to banks to unload physical currency to the banks. I can't see weimar germany happening.
1s and 0s are fine when everything is running smooth but when confidence is gone and people want cash there isn't enough out there to go around.


Who knows what will happen. Maybe your pay stays stagnant, but the nationalized banks start tacking zeros onto your account balance periodically A billion dollars in the bank now, debit card still works for a million dollar grocery bill, and now your indexed mortgage is a trillion dollars. Why, I don't see why the runup couldn't be higher and faster without the impediment of physical currency!


You're both right. Hyperinflation done digital would result in a complete disconnect between the value of work and the value of goods. Without physical currency, the numbers in your account are meaningless. Whether a loaf of bread is five bucks or five billion bucks is of no concern, as long as it can be purchased. Hyperinflation may be the tool needed to bring about the horror of a world free of money.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'O')r perhaps they'll take up using scrip.


That's where it's all headed, the elimination of currency. Capitalism will live in the shadows -- black markets and local currencies will become the norm for those who do not wish to suckle at the Federal teat. Those of us who believe in the power of hard work will have to stand in the bread lines by day and trade by night. Real commerce, and by extension thought and innovation, will become an act of insurrection in a world free of currency.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby HEADER_RACK » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 09:13:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'A')ctually, it means the electronic equivalent of the printing presses are running 24/7.

Weimar here we come.

link
Not exactly. The interest the fed is losing is inflationary, but the rest gets paid back, which isn't inflationary. I suppose if the fed gets stuck holding the bag if a bank fails that may be inflationary too, but that depends on the situation in question.


YP- You are almost right. While yes what the bank borrows from the Fed does have to be paid back with interest, this alone is not inflationary. It is when the bank loans out money on the feds deposit that it becomes inflationary.
A bank makes a loan from the Fed for 1 million dollars. That 1 million dollar deposit will turn into roughly 9 million dollars worth of loans through the system. That's what makes it inflationary.
The reason it's not being inflationary right now is because the banks are not turning that 1 million dollar deposit into new loans in the system. They are hoarding the deposit or they are using it to pay off their own loans to other institutions. The Feds deposit isn't being put to work.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby ubercrap » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 11:06:13

Um, not sure about the control "conspiracy" theories. And, certainly there are major differences, but let's get back on topic-

From Weimar link:

"The clamor for more money grew on all sides. It seemed that any halt to the printing presses would bring business to a standstill and throw millions of workers out on the street. The government itself would be unable to carry on."

Somewhat different mechanism, SAME BIND:


From original link:

'We have effectively allowed the central banks to disintermediate the banking system. Why would I want to borrow from you if I could do it with the central bank, because they can always print it up and say 'here'...and they are in the business now of making sure I stay in business," Simons said.'
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 13:17:30

The Fed is like a gaping wound gushing blood. Time to put on a tourniquet.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby skeptik » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 13:41:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')Think what that will mean if there is no cash and all your transactions are electronic, and ultimately tracable.

I have. It's for that reason that European politicians in all countries will *NEVER* accept the abolition of physical cash. Politics in Spain as we know it would cease to function. It would be a bit like the credit crunch applied to the political sphere. Nothing would ever get done.

I expect the same applies in the USA.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby skeptik » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 13:43:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '
')Think what that will mean if there is no cash and all your transactions are electronic, and ultimately tracable.

I have. It's for that reason that European politicians in all countries will *NEVER* accept the abolition of physical cash. Politics in Spain as we know it would cease to function. It would be a bit like the current credit crunch applied to the political sphere. There would just be endless deadlocked arguments (as tends to happen under proportional representation) an nothing would ever get done. A deft application of grease is occasionally needed to keep the wheels turning

I'm sure the same applies in the USA.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby jbrovont » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 14:07:09

How is it that there's $400+ billion going into the economy every day, and I'm getting oooooh, hmm - about ZERO of that? I want my taste. Not the whole pie, just my piece. What's the deal here guys?
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 14:24:00

From the Hyperinflation article:

<i>Once a snowballing financial and economic deflation gets underway, it could develop with breathtaking speed. Soon the government, instead of worrying about inflation, would be using desperation measures to halt the collapse, even if it had to run budgetary deficits of 100 billion or more.</i>

Aparrently a lot more.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Dan1195 » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 15:38:17

At this point is is almost like LIBOR is not really that relevant as it relates to the bigger banks, they are just borrowing from the FED instead. How long can this continue without major economic consequences.?
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby lateStarter » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 15:51:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jbrovont', 'H')ow is it that there's $400+ billion going into the economy every day, and I'm getting oooooh, hmm - about ZERO of that? I want my taste. Not the whole pie, just my piece. What's the deal here guys?


I'm with jbrovont on this... Why should I even be concerned about my $1200 BOA CC balance? In fact, I should get a bonus for mismanaging my finances, right? Isn't that how it works now?
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 00:14:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('HEADER_RACK', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'A')ctually, it means the electronic equivalent of the printing presses are running 24/7.

Weimar here we come.

link
Not exactly. The interest the fed is losing is inflationary, but the rest gets paid back, which isn't inflationary. I suppose if the fed gets stuck holding the bag if a bank fails that may be inflationary too, but that depends on the situation in question.


YP- You are almost right. While yes what the bank borrows from the Fed does have to be paid back with interest, this alone is not inflationary. It is when the bank loans out money on the feds deposit that it becomes inflationary.
A bank makes a loan from the Fed for 1 million dollars. That 1 million dollar deposit will turn into roughly 9 million dollars worth of loans through the system. That's what makes it inflationary.
The reason it's not being inflationary right now is because the banks are not turning that 1 million dollar deposit into new loans in the system. They are hoarding the deposit or they are using it to pay off their own loans to other institutions. The Feds deposit isn't being put to work.
In that case the difference is still the difference in interest rates, which is what I referred to as the fed losing. For instance if banks gets a trillion from the fed at 1.5%, and makes ten trillion worth of loans at 6%, then they'll make ~40 billion a year. Now, like ya said and I've read, these days banks aren't using this money for loans for the most part, since interbank lending has fizzled, but I suppose we could look at the maximal amount they could benefit from this given the volume of loans as well as average loan duration to figure the maximal inflation possible from this, assuming they kept loaning a trillion over the 28/84(?) day periods for the next decade or two. Provided this is correct, keeping the TAF up and running for decades assuming all the money banks got from it could be loaned out at a ~4.5% difference, then that would roughly double the inflation rate, which is definitely something, but pretty far from what we're seeing today since the fed opened the TAF because interbank lending has just about totally dried up, and it's definitely not Wiemar part dos.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 03:56:24

<b>US budget deficit in '08 surges to record $454 bn</b>

US budget deficit in '08 surges to record $454 bn
The federal budget deficit soared to $454.8 billion in 2008 as a housing collapse and efforts to combat the economic slowdown pushed the tide of government red ink to the highest level in history.

The Bush administration said on Tuesday the deficit for the budget year that ended Sept 30 was more than double the $161.5 billion recorded in 2007.

It surpassed the previous record of $413 billion set in 2004. Economists predicted a far worse number next year as the costs of the government's rescue of the financial system and the economic hard times hit the government's balance sheet.

Some analysts believe that next year's deficit could easily top $700 billion, giving the next president a formidable challenge.

link


<b>60% of US Debt Due by 2011</b>

America's precarious fiscal condition now means funding her multi-trillion-dollar, long-term liabilities with multi-trillion-dollar, short-term borrowings.

That's a timeworn recipe for disaster.

The amount of marketable public debt that the US government will have to "roll over" during the next few years is massive.

"Of the marketable securities currently held by the public as of September 30, 2007," the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports, "$2,838 billion or 64% will mature within the next 4 years." (<i>that makes it within 3 years now</i>)

link
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 07:53:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '&')lt;b>60% of US Debt Due by 2011</b>


I've heard about that, we're facing the peak in obligation right now:

Image

This is derived from the GAO article referenced in the goldnews piece: US Government Accountability Office PDF.

Found a schedule:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')able PDO-1 provides a maturity schedule of interest-bearing marketable public debt securities other than regular weekly and 52-week bills.


PDO-1 1206 PDF. According to this document Treasury obligations peaked last Nov 15 - at $51.5 billion. We'll owe $15-20 billion every month through 2011 though, with some exceptional highs and lows throughout. After 2011 the maturities are spread out more.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby mrbig » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 08:05:46

I got nothing else to say but this..

Cash is king.
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Re: Banks Borrowing $437 Billion Per Day From Fed

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 09:05:30

how can everything tie in this perfectly to 2012????

Did these people set out to make this happen on purpose, or is this just pure fate that everything is coming into fruition for 2012

I really don't think preparing is all that important anymore, I am personally starting to think that there are some relgious nut jobs out there who are going to force the end of days irregardless.
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