[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')nteresting info about state gov't pensions (teachers/ police, etc)
Is there any way these programs can just be gutted? (like just paying retiring police officers 25% of what they are expecting?) Or will local gov'ts be forced to raise taxes just to pay these pensions? (Not that I am advocating the former! My husband and I are both teachers in our 30's)

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I')nteresting info about state gov't pensions (teachers/ police, etc)
Is there any way these programs can just be gutted? (like just paying retiring police officers 25% of what they are expecting?) Or will local gov'ts be forced to raise taxes just to pay these pensions? (Not that I am advocating the former! My husband and I are both teachers in our 30's)

[virgincrude]

Unfortunately, this site was one of the first to predict this:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')lobal systemic crisis – End of 2008: Pension funds go off the rails
- Excerpt GEAB N°23 (March 16, 2008) -

If you were a subscriber to the GEAB, you would have read what will follow as early as March 16, 2008:

According to LEAP/E2020, by the end of 2008, a formidable debacle will affect pension funds all over the world, endangering the entire system of capital-based pensions. This financial calamity will bear a particularly dramatic human dimension because it will come at the precise moment when the first wave of baby-boomers phase out of the labour force in the US, EU and Japan: pension fund revenues are collapsing at the very moment when they should be making their first large series of payments to pensioners. In this 23rd edition of the GEAB, our team anticipates the evolution of the upcoming pension fund crisis, details which countries are the most exposed (in particular in Europe) and provides a number of operational and strategic recommendations to face the situation.

[mommy22]

I work for the county gov. for their meals program for the elderly. If the plan for everyone is to keep working til death, please take really good care of your health.
From my perspective, one either lose ones' mental abilities or ones' physical abilities as one ages. I deliver meals to people 65+, and while many of you assume you will be working very late in life, quite frankly, some of us will get, well, old and sick. Cross your fingers that you aren't one of them!
Like Jack said as he came to realize the Titanic was sinking "This is serious!"....that's how I am feeling as I come to realize the seriousness of all of this.
OFf to do some prep work...good luck everyone.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'D')ear Ignoranceisbliss, I noted your comment below.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')s there any way these programs can just be gutted? (like just paying retiring police officers 25% of what they are expecting?) Or will local gov'ts be forced to raise taxes just to pay these pensions? (Not that I am advocating the former! My husband and I are both teachers in our 30's)

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mommy22', 'I') work for the county gov. for their meals program for the elderly. If the plan for everyone is to keep working til death, please take really good care of your health.
From my perspective, one either lose ones' mental abilities or ones' physical abilities as one ages. I deliver meals to people 65+, and while many of you assume you will be working very late in life, quite frankly, some of us will get, well, old and sick. Cross your fingers that you aren't one of them!
Like Jack said as he came to realize the Titanic was sinking "This is serious!"....that's how I am feeling as I come to realize the seriousness of all of this.
OFf to do some prep work...good luck everyone.

[IgnoranceIsBliss]

Just to be clear, I do not advocate cutting pensions to police officers. In fact, I think those folks should be first in line above other gov't workers. People who have to risk their lives every day and see the crap that our officers deal with certainly deserve a comfortable retirement so they can finally start to let go of that stress.

The original purpose of pensions for gov't employees was to "sweeten the pot" so they could find people willing to do the jobs which paid less than the private sector.

However, many municipalities also promised life time health care for retirees, which was a terrible idea. (why even go there? That's what Medicare is for anyway)

Back to my main point - If pension benefits are guaranteed under the state constitution, then taxes will HAVE to be raised to pay for this balloon coming due. Property taxes are a hot issue around my area and they were in Florida too. Most people feel their property taxes are way too high, and they will be really ticked if these taxes have to be raised even more just to pay for pensioners. And how much would taxes have to go up to cover all of the promises? 5% 10% 35%?? Is that even feasible? I guess we will find out.

One final note: A lot of gov't pension plans were in serious trouble before this crisis because the gov'ts failed to make the necessary contributions to the plan. So they missed out on any growth that would have been realized. Then to try to compensate, they got into riskier investments. The local gov't officials who manage these things have no idea what they are doing. Now take the failure to make the necessary contribution and combine that with massive losses due to the recent market, and you have the perfect storm.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')owever, many municipalities also promised life time health care for retirees, which was a terrible idea. (why even go there? That's what Medicare is for anyway)

[Farknight]

Okay VMarcHart here is my response:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')irst, who did force you to be a cop? Second, who did force you to have 3 kids? Sorry, two poorly phrased questions, but they do illustrate the fact we think tomorrow is promised without reading the fine print.

That said, I'm sure you were a good cop, and I truly appreciate the good work you and your brothers-in-arm put in for the rest of us.

As for your pension, yes, you were promised and now it seems that promise might be broken, bu do you want to collect it in full while your kids pay through the nose in taxes and hardship?

As for revenge, please don't do it and please don't suggest anything of the sort in public.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'M')y retirement is a contract and based in law, destroy it and all contracts and laws become meaningless pieces of paper and hence the allusion to potential violence as when law goes so does order. As for the kids, give me a break, I never received any assistance from anyone other than other cops. I am sure the Lehman Brothers CEO kids are pampered by imported au pairs despite their Father's destruction of pensions, livelihoods and jobs. A society reaps what is sows (very biblical really) and if you sow and reward greed you will reap disaster.

...

It was a contractual arrangement with the State with BIG amounts paid to much higher fish than I. Defraud the contract now and all such contracts are bogus and fraudulent. You can't be in a nation that "bails out" the rich fish who f#@ked up and then let those that really tried to do the right thing (cops, nurses, emts, teachers) suffer and say "oh well". Yes, I believe that might make them a bit ANGRY. If contracts are frauds so are mortgages and auto leases and laws against trespass, etc. Not the civilized society of law and order we supposedly inhabit.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'M')y retirement is a contract and based in law, destroy it and all contracts and laws become meaningless pieces of paper and hence the allusion to potential violence as when law goes so does order. As for the kids, give me a break, I never received any assistance from anyone other than other cops. I am sure the Lehman Brothers CEO kids are pampered by imported au pairs despite their Father's destruction of pensions, livelihoods and jobs. A society reaps what is sows (very biblical really) and if you sow and reward greed you will reap disaster.

...

It was a contractual arrangement with the State with BIG amounts paid to much higher fish than I. Defraud the contract now and all such contracts are bogus and fraudulent. You can't be in a nation that "bails out" the rich fish who f#@ked up and then let those that really tried to do the right thing (cops, nurses, emts, teachers) suffer and say "oh well". Yes, I believe that might make them a bit ANGRY. If contracts are frauds so are mortgages and auto leases and laws against trespass, etc. Not the civilized society of law and order we supposedly inhabit.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'M')y retirement is a contract and based in law, destroy it and all contracts and laws become meaningless pieces of paper and hence the allusion to potential violence as when law goes so does order. As for the kids, give me a break, I never received any assistance from anyone other than other cops. I am sure the Lehman Brothers CEO kids are pampered by imported au pairs despite their Father's destruction of pensions, livelihoods and jobs. A society reaps what is sows (very biblical really) and if you sow and reward greed you will reap disaster.

...

It was a contractual arrangement with the State with BIG amounts paid to much higher fish than I. Defraud the contract now and all such contracts are bogus and fraudulent. You can't be in a nation that "bails out" the rich fish who f#@ked up and then let those that really tried to do the right thing (cops, nurses, emts, teachers) suffer and say "oh well". Yes, I believe that might make them a bit ANGRY. If contracts are frauds so are mortgages and auto leases and laws against trespass, etc. Not the civilized society of law and order we supposedly inhabit.

[Farknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')You understand your non-pension relatives, friends, neighbors, high school sweethearts, etc, will have to pay more taxes to keep your contract, don't you? Whereas I understand it's very civilized indeed, it's not part of my contract.

[Farknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he U.S. has a checkered history of paying pensions to its agents of coercion, but the record has been pretty good for the last 50 years or so. I wouldn't sweat losing any law enforcement or military pension, so long as there is a functioning government. However, there have been historical instances of active duty law enforcement and military being asked to use coercive power against retired members of these organizations. Watch out for that.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hy don't you get a Gov job?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hy don't you get a Gov job?

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'D')o you want to break it to the Baby Boomers that their Social Security and health insurance is a lie and nobody will pay the taxes to support it?

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hy don't you get a Gov job?

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'W')hy don't you get a Gov job?

[Farknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')VMarcHart
27 minutes ago • Thursday 2008-10-09 10:14:00 • Reply
Farknight wrote:
Do you want to break it to the Baby Boomers that their Social Security and health insurance is a lie and nobody will pay the taxes to support it?
In short, no. It's unfair to let the Baby Boomers solely get the shaft. I think the burden of our broken system should be shared with all, including the folks in DC-land and Wall Street. Otherwise, its postponement to the Jones and X generations will create the real Mad Max scenario. Like you, if and when I retire, I don't want to have zero social security.

Farknight wrote:
...by your earlier logic no one is FORCING you to remain here in Amerika land of taxes and laws and contracts. By all means move away to the place with no taxes and freedom and that magical supermarket/walmart lifestyle. No need for taxes there, just yourself and homestead, self-sufficient, off the grid and truly independent of the world and all others.
I've been thinking about that, but don't think I have the guts.

Farknight wrote:
We like our super-highways filled with SUVs and mega-schools with every conceivable sport and class, and the world's grandest, most sophisticated military to keep Russia and those non-cooperative folks at bay. We want to avoid our homes being invaded, our family abused and 911 on call 24/7...
I don't.