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Some oil price notes

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Some oil price notes

Unread postby Soft_Landing » Tue 21 Sep 2004, 16:15:15

Everyone has probably noticed that oil is up again. Todays close was $47.10. Of interest, but often receiving less attention, are heating oil and natural gas prices.

Heating oil is at an all time high of 1.304, and natural gas has turned around the price slide of the last few months to be up 0.80 or about 16% over the last 3 days. Both of these rises seem to have a lot to do with Hurricane Ivan which disrupted production in GOM.

In particular, the price rise of heating oil is fascinating. At this time of year, refineries should be building stocks, closing for maintainence, and changing runs from gasoline to heating oil. As gasoline prices haven't followed crude up, it seems that some refineries have continued to produce gasoline later in the season than they normally would, presumably, to capitalise on the greater price spread. Hence also the run down in stocks in last weeks data, which surprised the market.

Now, when Hurricane Ivan cuts into refining capacity (and crude deliveries), it cuts directly into what would have been badly needed heating oil. The supply which would have already been getting stocked later in the year than normal gets even further delayed.

The end point is that now, both heating oil and natural gas are up heavily, and there's not even a cold spell in sight. Could be a rough winter... Better hope that global warming lives up to its name... :x ... that's a bad joke, I know
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Airlines and fuel costs

Unread postby TylerJC » Tue 21 Sep 2004, 20:44:18

With oil at 47 dollars a barrel, the cost of transportation is increasing. The airlines are losing money because fuel costs are eating away at their margins (not that Delta and US Airways were profitable anyway 8) ). We aren't going to reach the peak in the next 3 years, but we are seeing the early effects of extended high energy costs. The airlines are the canary in the coal mine. When they struggle, it means that long distance transportation is becoming more expensive. When transportation costs go up, the cost of goods increases or the profit margin thins. Watch the airlines over the next few years. If Southwest becomes unprofitable, we are in trouble.
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Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 02:08:00

These guys are predicting $15/bbl oil in Sept and going down from there???


http://forecasts.org/oil.htm
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Unread postby jato » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 02:19:47

Looking at this...

http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html


...there seems to be a steady upward trend. $63 per barrel by Sept. 2005?
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Unread postby MonteQuest » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 02:28:39

These guys seem to see a crash in the dollar coming this month. Look at their projections for the euor vs the dollar 1.69 in Sept????
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Unread postby Matrim » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 03:17:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hese guys seem to see a crash in the dollar coming this month. Look at their projections for the euor vs the dollar 1.69 in Sept????


which guys??
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Unread postby Guest » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 05:10:37

These guys:


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hese guys are predicting $15/bbl oil in Sept and going down from there???


http://forecasts.org/oil.htm


are either on crack....

Or they are expecting something catastrophic to occur...large collapse of dollar, large DJIA plunge and wild fluctuation, etc. Look at all their short-term forecasts on left side of page...

Their prediction on the 10 year Treasury is right on track...same with the Federal Funds rate...

Although I think they expected a crash end of Aug/early Sept.

The only thing I can think that could spark all that would be: 1) another major terrorist attack, or 2) war.

Can someone try to find out what they believe will be the underlying cause of their predictions?
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Unread postby Guest » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 05:12:19

Ah, I get it...neural nets...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Method Behind The Madness

The Financial Forecast Center uses a state-of-the-art artificial intelligence technique called "neural networks" to predict the behavior of the U.S. and global financial markets and economies. Neural networks enable a computer to truly learn from a set of data to allow pattern recognition and to formulate generalizations. The name "neural networks" is used to describe the computer programs because they are based on the operation of a network of nerves, such as the human brain, and these computer networks learn much the same way a network of nerves learns.

Because a computer is allowed find its own patterns and generalizations in the data set, it reaches its own conclusions and essentially eliminates or side-steps inherent limitations in man-made forecasts or models--the limiting nature of the theories and assumptions on which the models are based. This technique allows for a more objective model to develop which is not biased by human preconceptions, creative embellishments, or cognitive limitations.

The training sets use the following economic values as the foundation for developing the models on which the forecasts are based:

§ Unemployment Rate
§ Gross National Product
§ Index of Industrial Production
§ Retail Sales
§ Non-residential and Residential Fixed Investment
§ Manufacturing and Trade Activity
§ Money Supplies (M1, M2, and M3)
§ Personal Income
§ Business and Personal Savings
§ Imports and Exports
§ Commercial, Industrial, and Consumer Borrowing
§ Foreign Currency Exchange Rates
§ Global Stock Market Indices
§ Various U.S. and International Money Rates
...And many more.

And, of course, the predictions from the models are considered against the historical movement of an index, indicator, or stock as a double check. If the models predictions are truly unrealistic, they are reformulated and rerun. We do not try to censor the forecasts except in extreme cases, since this is returning the potential for human bias into the loop.

If you are interested in exploring neural networks for yourself, Applied Reasoning offers an easy to use neural network software package geared toward novices. To download a free trial version with no time limit and almost all features enabled, please click here.

Neural networks are hard at work in many different industries and services such as credit approval, voice recognition, weather forecasting, securities forecasting, and product design. Please visit our sister site, The Severe Weather Forecast Center, to see another example of artificial intelligence in action.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

© 1999 Applied Reasoning, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Unread postby Guest » Wed 22 Sep 2004, 14:00:28

10 year bond now at 4.00%!!!!!! As predicted by this...almost every analysis I read even a few days ago was predicting trends to over 5% very shortly. The pundits are wrong again.

Is the financial crash unfolding???..
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Re: Some price notes

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Tue 23 Sep 2008, 00:32:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Soft_Landing', 'E')veryone has probably noticed that oil is up again. Todays close was $47.10.

Of interest, but often receiving less attention, are heating oil and natural gas prices.

Heating oil is at an all time high of 1.304, and natural gas has turned around the price slide of the last few months to be up 0.80 or about 16% over the last 3 days.

Both of these rises seem to have a lot to do with Hurricane Ivan which disrupted production in GOM.

In particular, the price rise of heating oil is fascinating. At this time of year, refineries should be building stocks, closing for maintainence, and changing runs from gasoline to heating oil. As gasoline prices haven't followed crude up, it seems that some refineries have continued to produce gasoline later in the season than they normally would, presumably, to capitalise on the greater price spread. Hence also the run down in stocks in last weeks data, which surprised the market.

Now, when Hurricane Ivan cuts into refining capacity (and crude deliveries), it cuts directly into what would have been badly needed heating oil. The supply which would have already been getting stocked later in the year than normal gets even further delayed.

The end point is that now, both heating oil and natural gas are up heavily, and there's not even a cold spell in sight. Could be a rough winter... Better hope that global warming lives up to its name... :x ... that's a bad joke, I know


Bump.

Oh the good old days.

How we miss ye.

Heating oil at an all time high of $1.35.

Crude Oil hitting the astronomical price of $47.
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Re: Some price notes

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 23 Sep 2008, 12:16:54

Thought "$47" was a typo in a post from last June. Gotta keep an eye on when these things were posted.

Yeah, that sounds so quaint, like Dr Evil threatening to blackmail the world unless he receives $1,000,000! :lol:

Another hilarious bit of inflation from Hollywood is a scene from Total Recall where someone asks for $50 to buy a can of Pepsi...
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