[timmac]

I am no big doomer here but you have to admit we are living in strange times.

With all the other bad economy times in the past we where not in trillions of dollars in debt,, most retired people had there homes paid for,, no world peak oil,, very little personal debt,, S.S. was good and medicare also,, we had a better standard of living,, companies where not going over seas a 100 a month,, medical cost was more afforadble,, no world terrisiosm,, ice caps where not melting,, only 2-3 nations had nukes,, most of the world liked us and our morals where a hell of alot better.

If I missed somthing let me know....

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'C')OLLAPSE COLLAPSE COLLAPSE!!!!!!!!!! I can't become a warlord without a collapse. GO COLLAPSE!!!!!! Though, it will make it harder to find toilet paper, soap, dirty dirty girls, no wait, the girls will still be dirty and now also literally.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', 'T')he Fed is barred by statute to provide liquidity streams to an insurer, as they only oversee banks. It's up to Treasury to come up with $$$ or private investors. The Fed can organize these entities, but they can't materially contribute one dime.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jasonraymondson', 'C')OLLAPSE COLLAPSE COLLAPSE!!!!!!!!!! I can't become a warlord without a collapse. GO COLLAPSE!!!!!! Though, it will make it harder to find toilet paper, soap, dirty dirty girls, no wait, the girls will still be dirty and now also literally.

[lionstones]

[Newfie]

To grossly understate the obvious, something is wrong, seriously wrong, here.

Maybe we need some kind of paradigm shift or something.

I'm not a financial guy, just an engineer. I believe in an event I call the "opportunity of ignorance." That is when you bring in someone not involved with your project to take a fresh look. We all get so wrapped up in the details and technicalities of the moment to moment we forget where we are going. That said, and no one is more ignorant than I..........................

All this money is not really "money." Us working stiffs thinks of money in real terms of what he can buy: milk, gas, beer. Bill Gates is "worth" billions based upon the "value" of his stock. Which is just whatever the last dude paid for a share multiplied by x number of shares. If Bill wanted to cash out he would flood the market and the stock would be worth squat.

If I buy a house at $200,000 and sell it for $400,000 then I "made" $200,000. If I buy mild, gas, and beer with the money. Then the bank mortgages the house for $400,000 but can't sell it so it is worth squat. They lost "money" but nothing in the real world changed. The house still exists and performs its primary function. So somehow our paradigm of value is screwed up. What are we really trying to do? What really constitutes value?

40+ years ago I read some Ayn Rand. As I recall she defined a mans worth as the value added he provides to a system. Money is an abstraction of that value. Our society has taken that value abstraction to absurd levels.

If all does collapse, then there will be some period of disarray while we recalibrate the scales of value. The money changers will be seen to be valueless while the mechanic and blacksmith will still be able to do value added work. Until the scum bags screw it up again.

Still it sucks to live through the time of disarray, especially with all the other shit going on: PO, GW, etc.

Although, perhaps is a very strange way, this may be a good thing. If we quit buying unnecessary toys and crank back down on the usage of fossil fuels to make them last and give the environment a break then maybe we can buy some time. But there is still overpopulation. Oh well forget it, we are screwed.

Cheers

[pedalling_faster]

Here's Archie Bunker Doing Math

oh, if only we could videotape all the discussions going on behind closed doors in Wall Street & Washington.

[ColonProwell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', 'T')he Fed is barred by statute to provide liquidity streams to an insurer, as they only oversee banks. It's up to Treasury to come up with $$$ or private investors. The Fed can organize these entities, but they can't materially contribute one dime.

[jupiters_release]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '.')..I do not want this to happen - but it will...

[ColonProwell]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '.')..I do not want this to happen - but it will...

[roccman]

-440 down NYSE

+$100 gold

Oh yeah...

Here it comes...sideways...and stanky!!!

Got bunker?

[Roccland]

And we are off...

Gold up

Markets down...

JPM last bank standing...

As predicted.

[Roccland]

Oh - and dollar cratering...

[StuckInPhilly]

This kind of economic breakdown has been decades in the making.
Since roughly the 80's.

Yep, I think I see that train a comin'.

[Eli]

60 trillion in Credit default swaps, are set to explode, yeah bunker time it is.

A bailout bill that is set to destroy the dollar, perhaps forever.

We are witnessing the Fall of the Roman Empire.

[threadbear]

Asset destruction, commodity bull. Get ready for it. Any price set on a world market for products people need, in an atmosphere of reduced or unpredictable crop yield is going to go up, as the dollar loses value. Highly inflationary. Commodities, once again, along with precious metals, are going to be somewhat of a safe haven for liquidity.

The run-up to 147.00, in oil, may have been a foreshadowing, even if short selling is wrung out of the market.

[Spanktron9]

Oil up to 109.64 at time writing.

Do you guys smell something burning?

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '6')0 trillion in Credit default swaps, are set to explode, yeah bunker time it is. A bailout bill that is set to destroy the dollar, perhaps forever. We are witnessing the Fall of the Roman Empire.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColonProwell', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('roccman', '.')..I do not want this to happen - but it will...

[Roccland]

What a ride!!!! Down almost 400. dollar on life support.

oil up $25!!!!! got helmet?