[Rod_Cloutier]

It seems to me that the everyday economy of you and me is tiny compared the the millions/billions/trillions being traded daily on the world markets. What would really happen if people actually tried to spend all these obscene amounts of money on actual goods?

A few years ago, an investment company (I don't remember their name) tried to talk me and my wife into a debt consolidation loan; their scheme was that any savings they were able to produce by reducing our monthly debt payments, we could then invest with them to buy shares in their investments. Sounded tempting at first, lower monthly payments on debt and invest the difference? When I looked closer however their whole 'investment strategy' was simply gambling. Buying and selling shares in various mutual fund companies, never knowing how or where the money was actually going.

We backed out of this offer. I said to them 'don't you care' that this money could be used unethical purposes?? What if the money ends up being used to manufacture weapons, or contribute to cancer deaths by being spent by tobacco companies or if it contributes to deforestation and the ruination of the enviroment by being lent to forestry companies? They said at that point 'quite frankly, we don't care how the money is used we only care about the rate of return'. This attitude, in my opinion, is why the world is really at a crossroads.

Nobody cares how the money gets used, so long as it produces a high rate of return! So all ethical, social and moral restrictions regarding ethical investing are thrown to the wind. All investments get bunched together in mutual funds where nobody knows or cares where it really is at any given point in time. So the numbers grow without limit. You get the current 'casino economy' that we have now. Where the monetary value of investments held is many hundreds of times the actual GDP of our economies, with all kinds of evil is being done all over the world in the sake of 'high interest return'.

So really the world economy is the relative size of an ant- with the monies of the world casting a long shadow behind it the size of an elephant. How long till people wake up and see the ant's true size??

[ohanian]

Not only do we NOT care about how our money get used. We don't even care where our food comes from. Or who makes our iPhones or condoms.

Hell, we don't even care what brand of computers render the latest Pixar movie. What if those computers had CPUs that are made in China?

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', ' ')How long till people wake up and see the ant's true size??

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'N')ot only do we NOT care about how our money get used. We don't even care where our food comes from. Or who makes our iPhones or condoms.

Hell, we don't even care what brand of computers render the latest Pixar movie. What if those computers had CPUs that are made in China?

[TWilliam]

Everything living eats, and is eaten.

'Morality' is a social construct, one that is a byproduct of abundance. Or as Twain put it, "Principles have little force, except when one is well fed."

Slaves always far outnumber their masters. They remain slaves by choice, because most prefer life as a slave to death as a martyr, even if one's death may mean liberation for one's brethren. Humans are ultimately selfish, every single one of us. Even the most magnanimous...

[nobodypanic]

i think i agree w/RE.

the problem is greed. the problem is that the unrestrained and unlimited aquistion of wealth is the driving force for human beings, and as long as that is the case, we have little hope.

on the math side... you can't divivde by zero. that's a big no no. undefined.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'E')verything living eats, and is eaten.

'Morality' is a social construct, one that is a byproduct of abundance. Or as Twain put it, "Principles have little force, except when one is well fed."

Slaves always far outnumber their masters. They remain slaves by choice, because most prefer life as a slave to death as a martyr, even if one's death may mean liberation for one's brethren. Humans are ultimately selfish, every single one of us. Even the most magnanimous...

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', ' ')i disagree. this might appear to be the case at this point in time, but i don't think it's an unalterable characteristic of human nature. there is the cultural component: western capitalism is predicated on greed--it's considered a virtue! and so long as it is the dominant cultural paradigm, well then greed rules. change the culture.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', ' ')i disagree. this might appear to be the case at this point in time, but i don't think it's an unalterable characteristic of human nature. there is the cultural component: western capitalism is predicated on greed--it's considered a virtue! and so long as it is the dominant cultural paradigm, well then greed rules. change the culture.

[Auntie_Cipation]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '.')..walk into Walmart...

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'D')ivide $5000 by Zero, you have Zero. Divide $1,000,000 by Zero, you still get Zero. Divide a TRILLION or my by Zero, what do you get? Still Zero. This is Mathematics my friends, its just pure logic and you cannot deny it with smoke and mirrors.

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'M')orals as a social construct developed precisely for the purpose of holding our basic instincts in check so that we can function effectively in groups, since doing so increases the chances of our individual survival in the face of the vicissitudes of life. They too are ultimately based in selfishness.

[Quinny]

Yeah its maths, but it's the wrong answer!
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ohanian', 'N')ot only do we NOT care about how our money get used. We don't even care where our food comes from. Or who makes our iPhones or condoms.Hell, we don't even care what brand of computers render the latest Pixar movie. What if those computers had CPUs that are made in China?

[threadbear]

Twilliams, Have you read Man's Search for Meaning, by Victor Frankyl? If you haven't, you should. It outlines that some of us take our morality to the grave, regardless of circumstances. It's one of the most uplifting books I've ever read, written while Frankyl was incarcerated in a concentration camp, during WW2.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'i')mho, you're sort of wrong. cooperation and sharing are also fundamental expressions of the survival instinct. i don't see why greed should be granted a more fundamental existence.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'i')mho, you're sort of wrong. cooperation and sharing are also fundamental expressions of the survival instinct. i don't see why greed should be granted a more fundamental existence.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'g')reed and selfishness are not anymore fundamental to our nature than cooperation and selflessness. and all of them are primal instincts that evolved to ensure species, and not individual, survival.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', ' ')greed and selfishness are not anymore fundamental to our nature than cooperation and selflessness. and all of them are primal instincts that evolved to ensure species, and not individual, survival.

[ohanian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'D')ivide $5000 by Zero, you have Zero. Divide $1,000,000 by Zero, you still get Zero. Divide a TRILLION or my by Zero, what do you get? Still Zero. This is Mathematics my friends, its just pure logic and you cannot deny it with smoke and mirrors.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', ' ')greed and selfishness are not anymore fundamental to our nature than cooperation and selflessness. and all of them are primal instincts that evolved to ensure species, and not individual, survival.