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THE Hedge Fund Thread (merged)

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby Nano » Wed 17 Sep 2008, 05:36:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '1'). Banning short selling has nothing to do with "locking in" somebody's money. Nobody's money gets locked in. Short selling is not the same as selling because the stock is going down.

I think you're confusing short selling and naked short selling.
In terms of what actually happens in trading, there is no real difference in "selling" and "short-selling". So if you want to ban the one, you would also have to ban the other for the ban to have any effect.
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby Cashmere » Wed 17 Sep 2008, 11:54:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '1'). Banning short selling has nothing to do with "locking in" somebody's money. Nobody's money gets locked in. Short selling is not the same as selling because the stock is going down.
I think you're confusing short selling and naked short selling.In terms of what actually happens in trading, there is no real difference in "selling" and "short-selling". So if you want to ban the one, you would also have to ban the other for the ban to have any effect.

naked or not, banning short selling has nothing to do with locking in money.
If you ban short selling, people can still buy and sell the stock at will.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby 97pattan » Wed 17 Sep 2008, 12:27:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nano', 'I') think you're confusing short selling and naked short selling. In terms of what actually happens in trading, there is no real difference in "selling" and "short-selling". So if you want to ban the one, you would also have to ban the other for the ban to have any effect.
naked or not, banning short selling has nothing to do with locking in money. If you ban short selling, people can still buy and sell the stock at will.

Naked short selling = selling without borrowed papers (therefore can be unlimited selling) SEC has banned this w.e.f. 18th Sept.
Short selling = selling with borrowed papers (must be identified. if fraud, broker will be banned from short selling for a period)
selling = selling your owned scripts.
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby idiom » Wed 17 Sep 2008, 15:14:22

Snaps for denninger.
The world ends without a tragedy,Time is melting into history
The sky is falling, Voices crying out in desperation
Hear them calling, Everybody, save yourself
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby Eli » Wed 17 Sep 2008, 15:17:52

Goldman was down 30 % last time I checked.

Karl got this one exactly right.

Also you don't have to short a stock, you can always buy puts.
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby Cashmere » Thu 18 Sep 2008, 15:01:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'T')he entire financial system would collapse even faster if short selling is banned.
why? It's very simple. The value of any asset is based on consumer confidence. There is absolutely no better way to make people lose complete confidence then for the government to step in and lock your money inside and say you can NOT take it out. This is what separates a 1st world nation from a 2nd or 3rd world nation.
I don't think the US gov. will outright "ban" short sellers. Instead I think the gov. will try to "defeat" the short sellers by pumping massive amounts of $$$ into the system. We're seeing that right now.

Well Cube, the UK has banned short selling of financials.

I think you'll see very soon that the U.S. will take the same types of steps to ban short selling of chosen stocks. Link
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: Fed gives licence to kill to hedge funds...

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Thu 18 Sep 2008, 15:25:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I') don't think the US gov. will outright "ban" short sellers. Instead I think the gov. will try to "defeat" the short sellers by pumping massive amounts of $$$ into the system. We're seeing that right now.

Well Cube, the UK has banned short selling of financials.
I think you'll see very soon that the U.S. will take the same types of steps to ban short selling of chosen stocks. Link

+1

We seem to be following in UK's footsteps.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby Daculling » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 07:18:07

Letter pasted below URL. Enjoy. http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/10/andrew-lahde-go.html

Dear Investor:
Today I write not to gloat. Given the pain that nearly everyone is experiencing, that would be entirely inappropriate. Nor am I writing to make further predictions, as most of my forecasts in previous letters have unfolded or are in the process of unfolding. Instead, I am writing to say goodbye.

Recently, on the front page of Section C of the Wall Street Journal, a hedge fund manager who was also closing up shop (a $300 million fund), was quoted as saying, “What I have learned about the hedge fund business is that I hate it.” I could not agree more with that statement. I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.

There are far too many people for me to sincerely thank for my success. However, I do not want to sound like a Hollywood actor accepting an award. The money was reward enough. Furthermore, the endless list those deserving thanks know who they are.

I will no longer manage money for other people or institutions. I have enough of my own wealth to manage. Some people, who think they have arrived at a reasonable estimate of my net worth, might be surprised that I would call it quits with such a small war chest. That is fine; I am content with my rewards. Moreover, I will let others try to amass nine, ten or eleven figure net worths. Meanwhile, their lives suck. Appointments back to back, booked solid for the next three months, they look forward to their two week vacation in January during which they will likely be glued to their Blackberries or other such devices. What is the point? They will all be forgotten in fifty years anyway. Steve Balmer, Steven Cohen, and Larry Ellison will all be forgotten. I do not understand the legacy thing. Nearly everyone will be forgotten. Give up on leaving your mark. Throw the Blackberry away and enjoy life.

So this is it. With all due respect, I am dropping out. Please do not expect any type of reply to emails or voicemails within normal time frames or at all. Andy Springer and his company will be handling the dissolution of the fund. And don’t worry about my employees, they were always employed by Mr. Springer’s company and only one (who has been well-rewarded) will lose his job.

I have no interest in any deals in which anyone would like me to participate. I truly do not have a strong opinion about any market right now, other than to say that things will continue to get worse for some time, probably years. I am content sitting on the sidelines and waiting. After all, sitting and waiting is how we made money from the subprime debacle. I now have time to repair my health, which was destroyed by the stress I layered onto myself over the past two years, as well as my entire life — where I had to compete for spaces in universities and graduate schools, jobs and assets under management — with those who had all the advantages (rich parents) that I did not. May meritocracy be part of a new form of government, which needs to be established.

On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal. First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have reigned in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen. This is an outrage, yet no one seems to know or care about it. Since Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith passed, I would argue that there has been a dearth of worthy philosophers in this country, at least ones focused on improving government. Capitalism worked for two hundred years, but times change, and systems become corrupt. George Soros, a man of staggering wealth, has stated that he would like to be remembered as a philosopher. My suggestion is that this great man start and sponsor a forum for great minds to come together to create a new system of government that truly represents the common man’s interest, while at the same time creating rewards great enough to attract the best and brightest minds to serve in government roles without having to rely on corruption to further their interests or lifestyles. This forum could be similar to the one used to create the operating system, Linux, which competes with Microsoft’s near monopoly. I believe there is an answer, but for now the system is clearly broken.

Lastly, while I still have an audience, I would like to bring attention to an alternative food and energy source. You won’t see it included in BP’s, “Feel good. We are working on sustainable solutions,” television commercials, nor is it mentioned in ADM’s similar commercials. But hemp has been used for at least 5,000 years for cloth and food, as well as just about everything that is produced from petroleum products. Hemp is not marijuana and vice versa. Hemp is the male plant and it grows like a weed, hence the slang term. The original American flag was made of hemp fiber and our Constitution was printed on paper made of hemp. It was used as recently as World War II by the U.S. Government, and then promptly made illegal after the war was won. At a time when rhetoric is flying about becoming more self-sufficient in terms of energy, why is it illegal to grow this plant in this country? Ah, the female. The evil female plant — marijuana. It gets you high, it makes you laugh, it does not produce a hangover. Unlike alcohol, it does not result in bar fights or wife beating. So, why is this innocuous plant illegal? Is it a gateway drug? No, that would be alcohol, which is so heavily advertised in this country. My only conclusion as to why it is illegal, is that Corporate America, which owns Congress, would rather sell you Paxil, Zoloft, Xanax and other additive drugs, than allow you to grow a plant in your home without some of the profits going into their coffers. This policy is ludicrous. It has surely contributed to our dependency on foreign energy sources. Our policies have other countries literally laughing at our stupidity, most notably Canada, as well as several European nations (both Eastern and Western). You would not know this by paying attention to U.S. media sources though, as they tend not to elaborate on who is laughing at the United States this week. Please people, let’s stop the rhetoric and start thinking about how we can truly become self-sufficient.

With that I say good-bye and good luck.
All the best,
Andrew Lahde
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 10 Mar 2009, 13:20:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with tHE Hedge Fund Thread.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby cube » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 08:27:05

quiting while you're still ahead == smart move

"A king does not die with his crown on."

There is no shortage of investors who got lucky for 5 or 10 years......and continued to keep on riding their luck all the way off the cliff.
If Andrew Lahde continued to stay in the business he would most likely end up like 90% of all others who came before him.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby Jotapay » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 10:01:14

I like that guy.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby americandream » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 18:13:51

The man thinks as I do. Play the system whilst you can, get out when you're ahead. And don't fall for the hype.

Capitalism is red in tooth and claw and will use you and spit you out. And yes, the managers of the aristocrats are invariably fools with educations that exceed their ability.

Finally, do not give the system your loyalty. That you owe to your self alone.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby skeptik » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 19:12:43

deleted - post to wrong thread
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 20:02:03

Good points about hemp and marajuana.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby Daculling » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 21:17:47

Ya'all are missing the pertinent quote here... He is totaly boning the people that invested in his fund. Ya, they made a shitload of cash, but damn. He totally tossed them under the bus!

I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 22:12:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', 'Y')a'all are missing the pertinent quote here... He is totaly boning the people that invested in his fund. Ya, they made a shitload of cash, but damn. He totally tossed them under the bus![/i]


Somehow I doubt this fellow closed out the fund in the black. That remark about not returning any phone calls is quite pertinent. As to how much of what remained he was able to stash into his own accounts, I'd be interested to know what he considers a safe repository for the "small" bankroll he left with?

My guess would be he has taken off for parts unknown in his Yacht and is keeping his fingers crossed none of the folks who's inheritance he just lost find him any time too soon. He is a candidate for Cement Overshoes. He will be swimming with the fishes pretty soon I bet. LOL.

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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sat 18 Oct 2008, 22:27:08

Just a guess here also, I'll bet this dude was on the back end of a boatload of CDS contracts he could not pay up on. Further bets would be on trying to unwind the mess he left behind, it ill be discovered he violated the law all over the place. So besides disgruntled Yalies whose family fortune he lost being after him, one would guess the FBI will be looking for him also.

Hope he registered the Yacht in Libya and has a few fake passports and an appointment with the Plastic Surgeon.

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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby the48thronin » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 00:26:49

researching first keeps your feet from suffering from "dishpan wrinkles"... and keeps that awful taste outa your mouth too!


for instance.. from
link



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')owever, Mr Lahde, whose fund is one of the smallest specialists shorting subprime, has now begun to return money to investors, telling them in a letter: “The risk/return characteristics are far less attractive than in the past.”

In his letter, Mr Lahde said he expected the collapse in value of subprime mortgage-linked securities to be repeated for bonds backed by commercial property loans in a deep recession – which he also predicts.

“Our entire banking system is a complete disaster,” he wrote. “In my opinion, nearly every major bank would be insolvent if they marked their assets to market.” He also said he would be putting some of his own profits into gold and other precious metals.

Mr Lahde has used the phenomenal returns to boost his business, launching a fund to bet against commercial real estate this autumn – which made 42 per cent in its first two months – and is in the process of creating a third fund to short credits with a broader mandate.



seems he was betting on what has since happened!

link

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')r Lahde is one of the few hedge fund managers to have correctly predicted the subprime crisis. One of his funds made a return of 870 per cent last year. Money is now being returned to investors as the remaining business is shut down.

Yesterday, Mr Lahde said he would no longer run other people's money, preferring to concentrate on managing his own, and urged wealthy hedge fund managers and corporate chieftains to "throw the Blackberry away and enjoy life".

"I will let others try to amass nine, 10 or 11 figure net worths," he said.


and also

link

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he best-performing hedge fund manager of the past two years has closed down his funds and is returning money to investors after concluding that the danger of losing money from a bank collapse is too high.

Andrew Lahde, founder of California’s Lahde Capital, told investors last week that further credit problems – the basis of his profits – were likely but the reliance of the bet on bank counterparties made it too risky.

The move by Mr Lahde, who returned 870 per cent last year in one fund betting against subprime mortgages, and was at one point up more than 1,000 per cent, underscores the threat that is posed to hedge funds by bank failures.

His concerns are shared by many users of the over-the-counter credit derivatives market, which last week came under intense scrutiny from investors and regulators because of secrecy and reliance on counterparties.

In a letter to investors, Mr Lah­de wrote: “While we concede there are additional op­portunities in this episode of crisis and uncertainty, we have concluded that those op­portunities are far outweighed by the risks attendant in the use of the over-the-counter derivatives market.” Mr Lahde’s funds were small but high-performing after his bets on a financial meltdown proved correct.

In March he closed a six-month-old fund dedicated to bet­ting on falls in the value of credit linked to commercial property, after it return­ed more than 200 per cent. The Short Credit fund being closed was set up in De­cember to bet mainly against the credit quality of banks and broker/dealers, with some broader bets against corporate credit indices, using credit default swaps.

One investor said it was up about 40 per cent this year at the end of August, depending on the share class, although exact numbers had not yet been calculated. Mr Lahde said it would be up “double digits – missed the triple or quadruple digits with this one”.

The risk of bank failures for hedge funds, whose assets are often held in the prime brokerage arms of big banks, and for traders of credit default swaps (CDS) suddenly became a big issue last week when Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. Mr Lahde said his fund lost about 2 per cent from the collapse as trades due to settle last Monday had not gone through.

Lehman’s failure resulted in a dash by hedge funds to move prime brokerage away from Morgan Stanley, the biggest prime broker and one of only two remaining large US broker/dealers, and to a lesser extent from rival Goldman Sachs.

CDS traders also rushed to shift trades away from banks seen as risky and towards big commercial banks regarded as less likely to fail.


Bon Voyage!
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby the48thronin » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 00:45:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daculling', 'Y')a'all are missing the pertinent quote here... He is totaly boning the people that invested in his fund. Ya, they made a shitload of cash, but damn. He totally tossed them under the bus!

I was in this game for the money. The low hanging fruit, i.e. idiots whose parents paid for prep school, Yale, and then the Harvard MBA, was there for the taking. These people who were (often) truly not worthy of the education they received (or supposedly received) rose to the top of companies such as AIG, Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers and all levels of our government. All of this behavior supporting the Aristocracy, only ended up making it easier for me to find people stupid enough to take the other side of my trades. God bless America.


You apparently also missed the important point, He was boning the BANKERS and AIG people who were in fact taking his derivative BETS...THEY were the "ivy league elite", and they were the ones who lost against him...

He closed his funds when he decided the risk of "them" no longer being able to meet their bets against him was too great!

Maybe you read it too fast?
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby cube » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 01:00:51

I agree with the48thronin.
I think the author was trying to make "several" points not a single point:

1) FCUK you if you graduated from an "Academic Elitist" college. You're not as smart as you think you are.

2) the return / risk ratio is different now. stop while you're still ahead.

3) life is short. money isn't everything

4) hemp is good

5) leave me alone. I'm not answering e-mails or phone calls anymore. good bye --> runs off to Caribbean Islands while sitting on a beach drinking pina coladas
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Re: How to close a hedge Fund

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 19 Oct 2008, 01:21:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')5) leave me alone. I'm not answering e-mails or phone calls anymore. good bye --> runs off to Caribbean Islands while sitting on a beach drinking pina coladas


Is a Carribean Island where you REALLY want to be when your Paper Wealth turns into Toilet Paper? The locals will eviscerate your entrails. Personally, I'd prefer to be around friends who actually know how to fish. What a LOSER.

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