[Quinny]

Not at all a loner, but like Lumpy very few friends, though lots of people see me as their friend. On holidays / conferences / training courses, always life & soul of party, but very rarely keep in touch with people I meet. Met my soulmate in Deborah whose similar in many ways, she is a therapist and everyone really takes to her, but she has very few friends who she keeps in touch with. Recently had the fortune to meet friends from University, nearly always disappointed after meeting them.

Always been outside the system even when I was a politician, abstract things like principle don't fit well in business and political life. Even when I was a lecturer I ended up in trouble because of refusing to carry out certain policies which were against my principles. One man who was a very close friend to me was very upset because I didn't support him because I didn't think he was the best person for the job. I was shocked by his hostility as I was just in my mind being logical, any attempts to explain lead to even worse hostility as he thought I was being patronised.

Albert Camus wrote a book 'The Outsider' which is worth a read.

[catbox]

Found punk rock when I was 12...jeez 30 years ago....it was all about creating your own scene...DIY...questioning authority....and being cautious of becoming a sheep. Anyone who grew up in the scene that I know remains independent thinkers and maintains the values that we learned through avoiding the mainstream.....thus making you feel like a loner in a country where the sheep are the majority.

I have held mostly social jobs the past 20 years like teaching and working with people with disabilities (now I am holding an office job in the skate/surf/snow/ industry)...I always needed a good amount of alone time to recharge to be fresh for my more social jobs. I still do spend a good amount of time alone and like it like that. I do have a great group of friends that I can hang out with when I need to have that social interaction void filled. In the end, I mostly keep to my little family, cats, and chickens.

catbox

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')y "gayness" is peculiar, perhaps, in that it has nothing to do with sexual attraction to men. I'm more sexually attracted to women (pretty ones, anyway). But my "lonerness" made progress with women truly impossible. The world of men made more room for someone like me, was more accepting.
I call it the prison syndrome. I was (am) in a prison of my own making. In prison there are only other men to love.

[jasonraymondson]

I shut myself off years ago

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lumpy', 'T')his is a fascinating thread, Heinken -- thanks for starting it.

It really hits home with me for a number of reasons. I have always said that I have been friend to many people, but have had very few friends myself.

People open up to me (fortunate, since I practice psychiatry), and that is a gift for which I am thankful. However, I tend to be trusting of and more open to people when I first meet them, then pull back the longer I know them.

As the years have passed, I have been increasingly envious of -- no, more appropriately I would say I have longed for the type of personality or genetic makeup or formative background or whatever combo thereof -- that one sees in people who have friends they can still reach out to and relate to after decades of knowing one another.

I have a few people I could call on in crisis. People with whom I work. But as for friends, I have three real friends that I can think of ... one of my sisters, my "brother bear" (we 'adopted' one another as siblings in adulthood), and my husband.

My mask is a good, convincing one, too, Heinie. When I have been at parties (which I now avoid) or am at gatherings (like medical conventions or church functions) I am one of those people around whom others gather and are always smiling, laughing and enjoying themselves. I guess I put out vibes that bring people near me -- and then they enjoy the experience of being in that circle, for the brief time it lasts. But I never go away feeling I have been 'fed' in my heart/soul or energized by the encounters. And I don't follow up on maintaining relationships started during such encounters.

I am all the time being recruited to move to areas where we could live rural, but be closer to a larger town. There is one appeal to this for me -- the idea that through effort and skill learning, I could develop some real friendships that would last through the rest of my life.

I don't want to be 'mainstream' per se. I just like to have some greater sense of belonging.

This is so strange. I do so well in my work. I come through for so many people -- both through work and others who need me. But I really seem to be unable or maybe long-standing-unwilling (for reasons from the past, I would guess) to let people become and stay close enough to me to allow them to come through for me.

I think this is pretty self-sabotaging behavior. And having the chance to write it down here has started me with rethinking as to how I might really address this problem in a serious way.

Thanks for the thread.

Lumpy

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I') think to be a successful loner one must replace human relationships with other relationships - relationships with nature, or with books, or with music, etc.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m a loner due to severe social anxiety (now better controlled through the wonders of BigPharma). I never had friends I hung out with frequently. I have a very few not close friends. I'm not close to my family, whom I have difficulty calling on the phone. My family doesn't go out of their way to try to be with me (quite the opposite, I'd say, they seem to avoid me).

Living in the country and working at home, I'm mostly a hermit.

My husband is the only person I'm close to.

I don't mind it much except it leaves me feeling very vulnerable if I should outlive him (something I'm determined to do so as not to leave him alone, but even so, unlikely I will manage it - his health is better than mine).

My "social life" is mostly on the internet. Which is kind of like writing letters to strangers.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')Along with being a loner-type, I was extremely poor throughout my 20s and 30s, and I lived in a very expensive city (Washington, DC). Being poor makes for poor relations with women, especially in cities (Orwell wrote incisively about this phenomenon in his strange novel "Keep the Aspidistra Flying.") The men---they didn't care. They just wanted sex. A few---the ones I meshed with---wanted the love thing. I had several miserable, lengthy relationships until I ended up with my giant, gentle Nigerian immigrant, who's an angel.

I've sometimes fantasized about locating my bosses of that period and confronting them and beating them up while shouting at them that's it's because of their paying me next to nothing that I was never able to have a family or a normal life.

[Heineken]

Yes, family life can be awful, Byron. Other people create for us the prospect of heaven and hell and everything between.

I've been in public places and seen the screaming, demanding, expensive brats. I've seen the wives who let themselves go to pot, and whose sweet whispered nothings turned into shrill harangues. I have felt the horror you have felt---and the fear of being a wage-slave legally responsible for others.

But when you get to my age you begin to regret the absence of the cries of your DNA playing outside. Or splitting wood. Or going fishing with you. Or learning from you how to sharpen a chainsaw.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')But when you get to my age you begin to regret the absence of the cries of your DNA playing outside. Or splitting wood. Or going fishing with you. Or learning from you how to sharpen a chainsaw.

[FoolYap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'W')ell? Are you, punk?

I am. All my life (since my earliest memories) I've been outside the crowd. Never quite fit in. Felt uncomfortable and awkward around strangers, and a sense of conflict and competition with them. Didn't have many friends, and didn't long keep the ones I had. Believed in nutty things like peak oil (although I didn't call it that then) and environmental collapse. Was attracted to the empty places, to forests, to animals. Disliked most of the mainstream stuff, like shopping, football, and McDonald's.

I'm prepared to be friendly with people, but I just don't know how to begin. It's as though those neuronal tracts are hopelessly stunted.

Share your thoughts about lonerdom, whether you are one or not.

[patience]

Lumpy,

I think the value to me of growing up and living in small towns has been the UNAVOIDABLE closeness of the communities. It is impossible to keep the "real you" hidden when everybody around you knew your grandparents, parents, and you since you were born. Every group of people has its' occassional stinker, but in this environment, it is impossible to hide. They all know every indiscretion you ever committed, and get along with you anyway, in whatever way they can, because they are going to bump into you with regularity.

If I ever had an unhappy customer, the whole county would know it within a week, and decide if that person was credible, or if I was credible. A favorite pastime at the barbershop, or waiting in line at the feed mill, is to tell yarns about the past, and who did what. There is nowhere to hide, whether you may THINK you are hiding, or not. The conundrum is that you don't get the support they offer unless you continue to be open, right?

[Ludi]

Someone mentioned "visiting" above to avoid feeling lonely.. Who do you visit and how do you do it?

I tried going on one of the dating sites to find friends, because I wanted female friends, but the few straight women I met who were looking for friends didn't work out as friends for me. I was trying to face my shyness head on but all I ended up doing was drinking and driving. I would drive into town and go to bars and clubs to meet these women. And buy myself a lot of dutch courage. I think I was having mental problems at the time, as my behavior during that period seems weird to me now.

I have chickened out of joining clubs, though I tried to join one awhile ago (Native Plant Society) but got too shy to go to meetings.

If my husband dies before I do I have determined to join a church even though I would be a complete hypocrite to do so, but there is no other social support network for folks out here that I know of. I used to like church, so maybe I would end up believing all that again (I sort of doubt it though).

[patience]

I have never been a "joiner" of clubs, or formal groups of any kind after a few forays in that direction taught me the motives behind that type of interactions. I found them to be the same folk I met elsewhere, but in any focused group, the search for affirmation from "birds of a feather" became a less than enjoyable back-patting society, typical of churches, or sometimes evidenced conflicts of incompatible needs. Either non-productive, or negative.

Personal self esteem and the self confidence that it brings have been the greatest asset I've ever had. It's a conundrum. If you don't need affirmation to feel good about yourself, then you get all the affirmation others can give, because they see you as a strong person! Sort of like credit--if you don't need to borrow money, then you are a good credit risk!

I sustained some blows to my self worth as a kid from my ego-bereft alcoholic mother, who, so in need of strokes that she had nothing to give. The counterpoint came from a self confident father, who, unfortunately, was a rescuer/enabler type, and spent his life trying to pour help into the black hole of Mom's needy personality. I found that Dad's coping methods worked a lot better than Mom's, then had to learn how to not be a rescuer. I'm convinced that my rejection of the problems they each had was a valuable means for me to decide for myself what sort of person I wanted to be.

Choosing a mate was dead easy after having lived with what I did NOT want in a mate, and having seen some examples of good marriages. I found that I valued honesty, intelligence, and forthrightness, as opposed to all the head games I had seen before. I found a fine girl and married her in 1966, who remains the best friend I have ever had. Married at 20, we pretty much grew up together with the idea of COMMITMENT, a concept that seems to be lost in current society. The growing together was not trouble free-far from it, but it was worth it. I'm convinced that the key to success there is finding someone worth committting to, meaning, come hell or high water, you care for and support each other.

Now that is a goal worth pursuing.

edit: Well, I developed the idea, but never made the point above, that who I am, I believe to be largely the result of decisions on my part, rather than just emotionally reacting to whatever happened to me. Rational thinking can take precedence over emotional reactions if you CHOOSE to do so. Most people don't notice that they allow their emotions to rule their path through life.

[Ludi]

So if you're lonely it's your own damn fault?

[Auntie_Cipation]

Ludi, that was me that mentioned visiting.

I live in a very tiny town, and when I go to get the mail, or grocery shopping, or into the cafe/coffee shop, or to work (at the local library) or even just walk up and down Main Street, I will mostly likely run into someone I know and enjoy. These people are more than acquaintances but less than close friends -- people with whom I have some degree of likemindedness but not the kind of full-on match that makes for a best friend or good marriage.

I used to (and sometimes still do) feel disappointed that I don't have friends that I feel fully likeminded with. But mostly that's a fruitless goal in a small town -- there's likely NO one here, man or woman, who matches me 100%. So if I want friends, I have to accept people who have some things about them that I don't share. That's ok, I can tolerate that. Some things are more important to me, like political stance or attitude about nature, wildlife, etc. I probably could hardly chat civilly with someone who was too far from me on those issues. But I can enjoy talking about gardening with a friend and not be bothered by the fact that she is into art and I have no use for art. I can enjoy talking with my off-grid permaculture girlfriend even though she also has kids and I'm not interested in being a parent.

I have belonged to internet dating sites, and have met people through them, but I think for female friends it might be better to look around in your community and find a group you enjoy, like you did with the Native Plant Society -- that's a great group, and if you're actually interested in plants, botany, hikes, etc, you should just go to their meetings! In my town there's a knitting group that's similar for me -- I'm interested in learning to knit, but I'm not obsessed like most of them are (yet). But it serves as a social opening to meet people I'm likely to mostly enjoy.

Here, people stop in town, hang out, talk. That's part of what I meant. There are also girlfriends who would love for me to come over for dinner or hang out in their garden for a few hours gabbing or invite them to do the same. Sometimes the conversation is pretty inane, as Steve said, but mostly we talk about our personal lives, or about the economy, or politics, or whatever it is that gives me the positive connection to that person -- cooking, relationships, jobs, the weather, local gossip, whatever. I don't really relate to people who are into TV or shopping or all that, so our conversation doesn't get THAT inane...

That's all I was referring to. Nothing major. Just spending time with friends with no specific agenda, just talking. It fills some social need. It's not perfect, but it's real.

When I'm in a relationship, I enjoy the occasional group gatherings, like potlucks, more. When I'm single, I tend to shun those but have a greater desire, as I said, for hanging out one-on-one with a girlfriend, or with chatting in town when I run into a friend.

[Ludi]

Thanks, Auntie. It's just not a way of being I can identify with, this ability to hang out, to have people who want to invite you over for dinner, and the ability to just go do it without anxiety. It's a foreign world.

[Lumpy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lumpy', 'T')his is so strange. I do so well in my work. I come through for so many people -- both through work and others who need me. But I really seem to be unable or maybe long-standing-unwilling (for reasons from the past, I would guess) to let people become and stay close enough to me to allow them to come through for me.
I think this is pretty self-sabotaging behavior. And having the chance to write it down here has started me with rethinking as to how I might really address this problem in a serious way.
Thanks for the thread.

[WildRose]

It's interesting reading everyone's assessments of this aspect of one's own personality.

I would not categorize myself as a loner, not at all, but I do need and enjoy a fair bit of time alone. In fact, I probably don't get enough of that time, especially because I am of mom of teens, work outside the home and have lots of extended family here where I live. I'm very close to my husband and kids, as well as my kids' friends, who have always been welcome in our home and spend much time with us. I have a few really close friends, whom I love, and we get together fairly regularly. I've never had tons of friends, though, and growing up I was not one of the "in group". That's okay, because the relationships in that group seemed superficial to me. That was one of the things that turned me off of church groups as I got older, too.

Most people would probably say I'm very friendly, and I do like making small talk and greeting people but the number of people I'm really close to is small, relatively speaking.

I have a couple of dear friends who are really extroverted, who thrive on social interaction and immerse themselves in it as much as possible. I have sometimes beat myself up a bit about not being like they are, thinking that there must be some flaw in my personality that prevents me from being as sociable as they are. I've been coming to terms with it a little more in the last few years, but I still occasionally have nagging thoughts. For example, my 50th birthday is coming up soon and I'm split about 50/50 on having a party with everyone or just letting it slip quietly by with my closest family. I can throw a good party and especially like to do so when it's for someone else, but for myself I don't really like the limelight so much.

One thing I've loved throughout my life is time with canine companions, as some of you know by now. With the recent loss of my "best girl", I am somewhat lost. I treasure long walks and quiet times in the yard with a good dog, so I'm looking forward to spending time with a new dog, once I'm ready to adopt again.

Byron, it's sad that your sister is so bent on material wealth. Take heart, there are many women like myself who do not value "things". Honestly, when asked what I'd like for Christmas, birthdays, etc., I am usually a hard person to get an answer from because there isn't much I can think of - just sometime this year I'd like another dog!

[kpeavey]

The monthly meeting of the Introverts Support Group will be in forum 35. New members are urged to stay home.