[coyote]

Wilderness bugout is my absolute last option. I will do everything I can to make something else work first, and things would have to get pretty god awful before I'd seriously consider heading for the hills.

I consider myself to have learned a decent bit about surviving in the wild, more so than most Americans I daresay... but even so, I think there's a pretty good chance I wouldn't make it through my first winter. Gotta be honest about that.

If you don't have any training at all... well, as Ludi said, good luck with that.

[mgibbons19]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')he story of Dick Proenneke See photo above Alone in the Wilderness

[neocone]

I heard stories about Death Row inmates in Siberia in the old USSR being given the choice between a straight up firing squad, or 50 bullets and a rifle (actually 50+1... last one being to shoot yourself if it became unbearable).

95% of them died within weeks, eaten by bears or wolves... but those who survived in the vast cold wilderness rehabilitated themselves as pretty damn good woodsmen who were able to trade furs with the local outposts.

[dunewalker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mgibbons19', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')he story of Dick Proenneke See photo above Alone in the Wilderness

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I') guess my perspective is this: I don't love my own life enough to want to protect it by living in the woods by myself for the next X number of years. Simple as that for me.
I've never got that about people. I met some 70 year old guy who was desperate to live. I'm thinking, "why?" What the hell is it about being on this parasite infested sh1t-hole of a planet that you find so endearing? 70 years isn't enough?

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'I')'ve already got a Carnival Cruise ship lined up for all of us. They told me that when the $hit goes down, just give them a ring and they'll have a fully prepped/stocked ship ready for us. I'm hoping to charter planes to come and pick everyone up. Bring swimming trunks and lubricants. Crusie Ship photo

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'J')ust read or watch some Dick Proenneke... The guy did it all. He did have supplies flown in, but they were just staples. Plus he hardly ate any of the local wildlife, just what he found dead and some fish.

[RedStateGreen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', 'I')'d rather take my chances than head into the camps.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', 'I')'d rather take my chances than head into the camps.

[Auntie_Cipation]

I think people are comparing apples and oranges here -- I've participated in bug-out planning, including ideas about what would make a good location and also about what should go into a bug-out bag. For me, at least, there was no particular assumption that bugging out would be "for the long term,", although since we don't know exactly what's going to happen, the ability to bug out for weeks or even months is obviously better than a situation that would *only* work for hours or a few days. But in my mind, the short-term scenario was at least as likely.

In my situation I lived a dozen or so miles from town, with only a handful of neighbors inbetween. So, using the assumption that a working vehicle could get me to town, and likewise the assumption that town is 'safe', then I would not need to 'bug out' anytime the vehicle is an option. But what about when it's not? (for whatever reason -- no gas, don't want to be seen, etc). Any situation where I might have needed to leave the house without my vehicle would be a version of 'bugging out'. Even if I was just going to walk to town for help, I'd need a pack, since it would take most of a day (in good situation) to get there. What if z-- (oops, don't want to be the one to spring the Z word) what if, er, FEMA camp attendants stormed the house and I needed to leave without them finding me? What if I needed to escape an abusive husband without him seeing where I went? What if there was a tornado/flood/hurricane that wiped out my few neighbors, and I needed a place to hunker down til it passed and I could see what was left in town? Where would I go? How would I eat/stay hydrated/stay warm/defend myself/know when it was safe to come out? What if I or someone with me was injured? What if the one day camp turned into a two week camp because something ELSE happened just then? Thinking about all that, in my mind, is what bugout planning is all about.

I agree that in most bug-out situations it would be short-term, for a day or week and then make a new plan. Obviously, if there was a safe place to go that was within a day's walk, that would be better than setting up a bugout camp somewhere that isn't already known. The whole idea of a bugout plan is the *backup option* of what one might do when they DON'T have a nearby safe neighbor/family place to go.

Likewise, with a bugout pack, one doesn't necessarily assume the only usefulness is to try to survive for years from what's in the pack. I try to keep basic survival stuff like matches, a knife, etc in my pack, but I'm aware it's at least as likely to come in handy if I have a flat tire or slide into a snowdrift and have to camp overnight or walk twenty miles for help, as it is to help me survive as I hide in the woods from the FEMA guys.

As has been mentioned before, the best unknown-scenario prep a person can have is flexibility. Why not foster our ability to weather as many situations as possible when change is required?

I certainly don't have any macho mountain-man survival illusions, even though certainly some inspiring people have done just that (though usually in planned, voluntary, pleasant and abundant circumstances, of course). But I really don't see that learning to spot a good hiding spot or carrying survival tools is a bad idea -- if I can simply drive to a neighbor's house when I need help, I will -- but what of when I can't? Isn't it better to be over-prepared than under-prepared?

Think about (and read it, if you haven't) Gary Paulsen's book called Hatchet. A boy survives a plane crash in an isolated area and has to "make do" for weeks and weeks with only what's out there in the mountains plus whatever's in his pocket. The fact that he didn't spend the rest of his life out there doesn't diminish the importance of the tools and skills that he did have, that he knew to use.

[katnipkid]

Ludi, I am just stating my views about the gubermint, okay?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')'m thinking, "why?" What the hell is it about being on this parasite infested sh1t-hole of a planet that you find so endearing? 70 years isn't enough?

[ReverseEngineer]

I think the Bug Out plans described here are too limited in their approach. It's "What can you carry in a Backpack and Survive with in the Wilderness". This is not a good modern Bug Out plan.

Let me paint another Bug Out Plan for say 5 Nuclear Families (Mom, Dad, Boy, Girl) who regularly shop Walmart, are Peak Oil Aware, and have good SUVS and 5 20' trailers pulled behind the SUVS.

They have in those trailers Mountain House Foods, Guns, Bows, Knives, Hunting and Fishing Gear, Warm Clothing, Sleeping Bags, House Size Tents, Tanks of Propane and stoves and about every other product you could buy today at Bass Pro.

All the SUVS are fully tanked with Gas, they also each have a full refill of gas in cans and are good for at least 300 miles without a refill. Probably more like 400 or 500 miles. Now lets say such a group of Bug Out Survivalists lives in New York City. Your Bug Out locations in your radius could be anywhere from Maine to the North to Pennsylvania or West Virginia to the West.

How many other folks are going to be this prepared to trek out this far from the local civilization? They won't be able to get there because the gas stations are empty, they can't bring ALL the STUFF you bring out with you.

You scoped out your location well, you set up Base Camp. You have 5 Adult Males, 5 Adult Females, 5 boys and 5 girls to give various tasks to. You might run into some OTHER bugout folks who were this prepared, but if you do, you throw in together immediately. Now you REALLY have a good little community going.

If your trailers are packed well, this is certainly as good a plan as storing the stuff in the basement of your city home, and I think a lot better. Fewer Zombies to deal with, they just won't be able to GET that far out when TSHTF.

You do NOT go out into the Wilderness with a few matches, a rifle and 50 rounds of ammunition. You go out with every damn product you can still buy at Walmart, in the SUV you keep filled with Gas for JUST this emergency. You don't DRIVE it now, its your Bug Out Machine. If you bring enough extra gas, some power inverters you also can have some electricity for a while, and you could also bring some Solar Panels, heck you can even pull a pre-built windmill in parts to assemble and attach to the car alternators.

Call it Portable Civilization in Microcosm. How long could it last? Well, I think you could certainly pack food for a year even without hunting. I bet your little community could last 2 or 3 years, and after that much time, the rest of the Zombies will have mostly Perished. Then you make tentative forays back towards where civilization used to exist, and see what is up.

Like all other survival scenarios, don't try it alone, and don't try it unprepped. Buy everything you can now while it is still on the shelves at Walmart. There is enough in the camping dept of ANY Walmart on the shelves RIGHT NOW to keep 5 families alive for at least a year in the wilderness, and you could buy it all for probably no more than $5K per family. Today. Not tomorrow though.

OK, shoot it full of holes

Reverse Engineer

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Auntie_Cipation', 'I') think people are comparing apples and oranges here -- I've participated in bug-out planning, including ideas about what would make a good location and also about what should go into a bug-out bag. For me, at least, there was no particular assumption that bugging out would be "for the long term,", although since we don't know exactly what's going to happen, the ability to bug out for weeks or even months is obviously better than a situation that would *only* work for hours or a few days. But in my mind, the short-term scenario was at least as likely. -snip- Think about (and read it, if you haven't) Gary Paulsen's book called Hatchet. A boy survives a plane crash in an isolated area and has to "make do" for weeks and weeks with only what's out there in the mountains plus whatever's in his pocket. The fact that he didn't spend the rest of his life out there doesn't diminish the importance of the tools and skills that he did have, that he knew to use.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Auntie_Cipation', 'W')hat if z-- (oops, don't want to be the one to spring the Z word) what if, er, FEMA camp attendants stormed the house and I needed to leave without them finding me?

[CarlosFerreira]

Well, Reverse Engineer already spelled it out for all of us...

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katnipkid', 'L')udi, I am just stating my views about the gubermint, okay?

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlosFerreira', 'W')ell, Reverse Engineer already spelled it out for all of us...

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', ' ')I bet your little community could last 2 or 3 years, and after that much time, the rest of the Zombies will have mostly Perished.

[RedStateGreen]

Reverse Engineer, you have a place to bug out to, right? Because if you're just heading off somewhere it's not a good plan. And there's always the matter of timing (sure as your gas goes bad or you run one of your SUV's below half, that's when TSHTF).

The corollary to bugging out to a known location is making sure someone else hasn't taken it over first.

To all you searching the wild for a hideout: that lovely abandoned cabin in the woods might be someone's bugout lair, and they're not going to be happy to see you when they show up with their guns and friends. (but if you have more guns and more friends it might work... )