[ColossalContrarian]

Mods, feel free to move to hall of flames. joelcolorado is going offtopic on the russia/georgia war thread and it's pissing me off so I started this thread for discussion.

joelcolorado doesn't seem to understand that the US criminal justice system is full of minorities and poor people. It preys on the poor.

Individuals who can afford a lawyer get off with little to no repercussions (aka rich people).

There are far worse criminals in American who steal far greater amounts of money and effect far more people. These are white color criminals who blow the pensions of thousands of hard working American’s not to mention wars that are started in their interests.

joelcolorado, the point isn’t whether or not stealing is good or bad, its why do minorities and poor people do so much more time than rich people for disproportionate crimes?

[Cashmere]

There can be no doubt that minorities are discriminated against in the Judicial System of the U.S.. The only question is - how much?

Regardless, discrimination can account for only a small fraction of convictions/sentence length.

The main reason is . . .

. . . that minorities break more laws. Maybe it's socioeconomic, maybe it's cultural, maybe it's both, but there it is.

1 in 4 black males in America will be in the criminal justice system during their lives.

That staggering number can't be explained in substantial part by discrimination.

Stop offering excuses, point to the root of the problem, and maybe you can help lower the numbers.

[Tyler_JC]

What does society do to fix this tragedy?

I suggest removing barriers to entrepreneurship, reducing illegal immigration in order to reduce competition for low skill labor, increasing funding for work training programs, increasing the Earned Income Tax Credit, and providing refundable tax credits for community colleges.

Provide African Americans with the tools to improve their lives and they will do it, just as every other ethnic group in the United States did. Segregate them into ghettos, create a culture that glorifies it, and then keep them addicted to government handouts and they will continue to remain an underclass.

But I'm a conservative so I have a slight bias on this.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler', 'I') suggest removing barriers to entrepreneurship, reducing illegal immigration in order to reduce competition for low skill labor, increasing funding for work training programs, increasing the Earned Income Tax Credit, and providing refundable tax credits for community colleges.

Provide African Americans with the tools to improve their lives and they will do it, just as every other ethnic group in the United States did. Segregate them into ghettos, create a culture that glorifies it, and then keep them addicted to government handouts and they will continue to remain an underclass.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'B')lacks invented the "gimme 5". They improved on it with the "low 5", and then really found paydirt with the "high 5". The raising the roof, chest bump, earthquake, crotch grab, and all the variations thereof were minor accomplishments compared to the high 5.

[ColossalContrarian]

I would be curios to see stats on punishments for money related crimes, non violent.

So if a poor person commits a second degree burglary (more than $15k I believe) while a CEO (regardless of race) commits insider trading worth $150k who does more time. Where can I get stats like this?

Joe Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest for instance, convicted of 19 counts of illegal insider trading last year but is conviction was overturned even though he obviously committed fraud.

Another example -- We all know how crack carried a far greater punishment than cocaine even though the two substances are essentially the same, the only difference being that cocaine is generally used by well to do while crack is generally used by poorer populations and cut with baking soda.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', 'I') would be curios to see stats on punishments for money related crimes, non violent.

So if a poor person commits a second degree burglary (more than $15k I believe) while a CEO (regardless of race) commits insider trading worth $150k who does more time. Where can I get stats like this?

Joe Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest for instance, convicted of 19 counts of illegal insider trading last year but is conviction was overturned even though he obviously committed fraud.

Another example -- We all know how crack carried a far greater punishment than cocaine even though the two substances are essentially the same, the only difference being that cocaine is generally used by well to do while crack is generally used by poorer populations and cut with baking soda.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '
')
There are far worse criminals in American who steal far greater amounts of money and effect far more people. These are white color criminals who blow the pensions of thousands of hard working American’s not to mention wars that are started in their interests.

[jlw61]

What if we simply quit putting people in jail for using drugs and instead used a portion of the savings realized from the criminal justice system on education and rehabilitation for drug use? Sort of like what we do for tobacco and alcohol, two addictive drugs of choice for many. And would it not lower the cost of these drugs and make them safer? Could we not figure out a way to make american companies distributers of safer, better recreational drugs?

What if we eliminated a lot of the barriers to small business ownership? Such as the taxes, licenses, and fees required just to start a business. For instance, any business that employs less than 3 people and/or grosses under $250,000 a year? Only the pay check would be taxed, not the business.

What if we quit forcing people into a failed educational system and started making it possible for communities to create viable solutions to their educational problems? What if we quit forcing schools to buy new text books every year or so? What if teachers were paid to teach and not be a home room monitor? What if we put more money into art and band and less into football and basketball?

What if we actually went after violent criminals instead of pot heads? Quit busting doors down for a gram of coke or an ounce of pot? Made it possible for people to protect themselves? Quit forcing government solutions onto community problems?

What if we clamped down on credit card companies that prey on the lower end of the economic scale? What if someone actually taught kids how to use money wisely? What if we quit pusing the "buy it now, now, now" mentality and instead pushed the "buy it when you can afford it" mentality?

The evil in the system affects everyone, but it affects the economically disadvantaged the most. The rich can afford better lawyers, consultants and teachers. They can also afford to hide their drug use better than poor people.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jlw61', 'W')hat if we simply quit putting people in jail for using drugs and instead used a portion of the savings realized from the criminal justice system on education and rehabilitation for drug use? Sort of like what we do for tobacco and alcohol, two addictive drugs of choice for many. And would it not lower the cost of these drugs and make them safer? Could we not figure out a way to make american companies distributers of safer, better recreational drugs?

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'S')ome dilemma however remains; The fact that some drugs can be so much more powerful (addiction, psychological changes or delusion/psychosis/paranoia etc) than alcohol.
Education has for instance not stopped binge drinking.
So are we prepared to wear what ever other costs there may be to society in order to allow adults freedom of choice?
Although principally I am inclined to say yes....I hesitate.

[Tyler_JC]

It appears as thought jlw61 and I mostly agree on this one.

I've never understood why Black voters support policies that actively keep them dependent on the government rather than allow them to break free from the cycle of welfare.

Giving vouchers to families so that they could send their children to decent private schools instead of horrible public schools would be have enormously positive consequences.

But the "liberals" in Washington think that allowing government money to be spent on religious schools is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

Why can't they just let the kids have the chance to go to a good school? If the kid can finally learn how to read and function in society, why should it matter if the school happens to be grounded in faith?

Sweden's Success

If Swedes can improve their education system by giving competition a chance, why can't Americans have the same opportunities?

Better education = Less crime

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat does society do to fix this tragedy?

I suggest removing barriers to entrepreneurship, reducing illegal immigration in order to reduce competition for low skill labor, increasing funding for work training programs, increasing the Earned Income Tax Credit, and providing refundable tax credits for community colleges.

Provide African Americans with the tools to improve their lives and they will do it, just as every other ethnic group in the United States did. Segregate them into ghettos, create a culture that glorifies it, and then keep them addicted to government handouts and they will continue to remain an underclass.

But I'm a conservative so I have a slight bias on this.

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'B')ut the "liberals" in Washington think that allowing government money to be spent on religious schools is a violation of the 1st Amendment.

[joelcolorado]

You dont get it, they dont want to start a company or cannot start a company. They are not that kind of ppl. THey are too used to the dole and not doing anything.

THe single mother thing amongst blacks is horrible. Where are those dads ? Good lord. DOnt preach to me that theywant to change.

New orleans has received record amounts of money since the 60's and there are more ppl there on welfare now than ever. GOOD GRIEF> wake up, some ppl dont WANT to live like you and I.