[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blacksmith', 'I') can't see wood as a problem. There is always scrap wood , broken pallets, scraps from a manufacturer, shorts and cutoffs from a lumber mill, scrap wood from construction sites, and people who want to get rid of branches or trees they have cut down.

[strider3700]

Depending on your location you may not be able to get away with just wood heat. I technically have electric baseboard and a wood stove as backup since a wood stove can't be the primary heat source around here. It's not allowed by code and by the insurance people. Any place I have from here on out will have wood and some other form of heating. If building from scratch I'd be doing radiant floor heating heated by a propane boiler and solar as well as a wood stove.

[The_Virginian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('chenopodium', 'W')e "could" get both in theory... but that would mean we could get less land and the house would have to be smaller to make it cheaper overall. Currently we are planning for it to be around 1400 sq feet "living area" plus cellar, so comfortable but not huge for a family of 4...
True, wood stoves are not very expensive, so if we do decide on the heat pump, I think we would end up getting both (with the smaller land/smaller house). You may ask, why not wait a few years to save more money? I guess because I think we may not have a few more years until things go downhill and building might not only be more expensive but also maybe impossible

[WisJim]

A heat pump is a high tech device. Depending on where you live, you might not need a central heating system, if you insulate well, or rather insulate VERY well. In the first post, you mention a solar thermal system. What is it doing if not heating? Here in western Wisconsin I know of homes that are well enough built that they don't require any fancy heating system--they have super insulation, passive solar design, a small wood stove (often a masonry stove or Russian fireplace), and sometimes active solar connected to infloor radiant heat.

[chenopodium]

We use the solar thermal device to heat up water to a certain point - but of course this works best in summer...

I guess we could use the solar water from the thermal device to heat the floors, but then we would need all that extra piping we could avoid if we only used the stove and the costs would be back up . But maybe I should get a price offer on that to see how much the piping really is...

The house is insulated *very* well (as much as it is basically technically feasible), and it is a passive solar house (windows facing south etc, triple glass etc).

But it still gets around 20F here or less sometimes, so heating is still necessary

Re high tech device: good point. I wonder if sometime breaks if it could be repared in PO future... a wood stove is certainly easier to fix and maintain...

[WisJim]

Where are you located? Around here, 30 below is cold weather, and a good superinsulated house will maintain 50 degrees or warmer just from people's body heat, lights and appliances in that cold of weather. I am speaking from experience with that, having had to leave our house due to a family emergency in another state one winter, for almost a week, in January, with no heat in the house at all (we heat 100% with wood and passive solar), and when we came home the house was still over 50 degrees inside, despite below zero outside temps.

[frankthetank]

Build your house SMALLER and insulate well. Throw in a SMALL woodstove and keep an eye out for wood. Build yourself up about 20 cords and you'll be good for years. Just make sure its hidden:)

Personally i'd spend all the money on gold/silver and food/travel the world and move into an efficiency apartment...

[chenopodium]

I am located at 42` on the northern hemisphere in Europe , so it gets around 10-20F in Winter, sometimes it can be -20F, but *very* rarely.

I'm glad that you tell me about the 50F, so it sounds like even without wood we would be able to survive (and with just warm blankets etc).

Re apartment etc: I was also thinking at first of an apartment, but then you have no garden, and cannot really install solar panels. The garden is the main issue though. I think food will be a problem (Europe is too densly populated and imports a lot of food!), and if we can just grow 50% or 25% that would probably help a lot not to starve (in the worst case... and in a "best" case, it will just be a hobby).

In addition, we have saved some money and don't know how to invest it. We both think that hyperinflation will be more likely than deflation in the long run, and think that putting the money into something we can use, such as a house, garden and solar panels, would be a better investment thank leaving it in a bank etc.

We are also building up some food storage and bought a bit of gold just in case...

Re storing wood: can wood be stored in a cellar? We will have a full cellar for sure (about 800square feet or so)

[cephalotus]

If you belive, that "the system" will continue to work I would suggest very(!) good insulation (passiv house standard or near passiv house standard) and would install a (geothermal) heat pump system + buffer.

In the coming years the share of renewable energy production in the EU will raise significantly and a much better why than buliding stoarge facilities would be demand management system.

You will (most liekly) get very cheap electricity when there is lots of wind but you will have to pay high prices during peak load times with little wind (and solar) energy.

If you are a doomer and believe in the end of the civilisation as we know it a wood stove would be a better solution. But maybe you should build a bunker and not a house than?

If you have a passive house you will quite likely overheat your home with a wood stove...

[WisJim]

We keep a couple of weeks supply of firewood in our basement, but we wait until after a good frost before starting to haul in wood (we toss it into the basement through a small window) to try to avoid some of the insects that would otherwise be brought in with the wood. We still get some insects coming in on the wood, though. I spend my extra money on tools, garden supplies, and PV panels to add to my existing system.

[chenopodium]

We are indeed planning a passive house (fully implemented).

I believe that there are several possible scenarios going forward, each having a certain probability. Which one will materialize I have no idea... so I think there is maybe a 30% likelihood of a total doomer scenario, but also a maybe 30% probability that things will continue in a somewhat civilized way and several scenarios somewhere in between.

I would like to find a solution that would work somewhat for most of the likely future scenarios. I don't want to bet on one particular scenario, because I'm quite certain that I will make a wrong guess ... .

So both solutions have problems. For the heat pump, I need electricity - so to make sure it works in a non-electricity scenario I would need a lot of solar panels. The wood stove works except if there is no wood .

I tend to favor the wood stove at the moment... it sounds like with a passive house we won't freeze to death if we don't have enough wood but have warm clothes/blankets. In addition, chances are more people would then live in this house (other family members) if it got that bad, hence warming up the place more .

[The_Virginian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('chenopodium', ' ')
I'm glad that you tell me about the 50F, so it sounds like even without wood we would be able to survive (and with just warm blankets etc).

Re apartment etc: I was also thinking at first of an apartment, but then you have no garden, and cannot really install solar panels. The garden is the main issue though. I think food will be a problem (Europe is too densly populated and imports a lot of food!), and if we can just grow 50% or 25% that would probably help a lot not to starve (in the worst case... and in a "best" case, it will just be a hobby).

In addition, we have saved some money and don't know how to invest it. We both think that hyperinflation will be more likely than deflation in the long run, and think that putting the money into something we can use, such as a house, garden and solar panels, would be a better investment thank leaving it in a bank etc.

[WisJim]

My experience has been that the "superinsulated" part of a passive solar house is the really important thing. Then, designing the house so that it makes maximum use of the winter sun will help heat it. Our original superinsulated house depended on the insulation to reduce the heat loss--when we were gone for a week in the winter, we closed all curtains and window insulation devices, and depended on the insulation to retain the residual heat of the unoccupied house. Passive solar will usually require at least some input from the occupants, such as opening insulating shades when the sun is shining and closing them when it isn't sunny.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WisJim', 'P')assive solar will usually require at least some input from the occupants, such as opening insulating shades when the sun is shining and closing them when it isn't sunny.

[gnm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'B')uild yourself up about 20 cords and you'll be good for years. Just make sure its hidden:)

[vtsnowedin]

mos6507 That video has the heater he builds mounted inside the window. That means he is using solar energy that is already inside the house. no net gain is possible as shown. Mount one outside ethier below or beside the window and direct the gathered heat in and then you might have something but you have to provide controls so it dosn't work in reverse when a cloud or something interrupts the sun.

[frankthetank]

I have no clue. Maybe a large tarp to hide the wood?

WisJim-
So lets say you put a cord or two in the basement (given you have the space)...what about the moisture given off from the wood? Wouldn't it continue to dry/thereby releasing moisture into the house? I'd really think about going this route. I have a large basement that is nearly empty. I could easily fit a lot of wood down there.

[WisJim]

Frank-
The wood that we move into the basement has usually been cut, split and stacked outside for a year or 2 or longer, so it isn't drying much more inside--I have never noticed extra moisture from it. Some people though would welcome the extra moisture inside during the heating season.