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THE US Northern Border Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 14:19:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'B')ut I have no doubt that the only reason that Fidel's head was not given to a U.S. prez was because it wasn't wanted badly enough. Cuba was and is meaningless to the U.S..

Yeah, ride that big ol' mechanical bull! We all believe you when you say it's the real thing, cowboy! :lol: And I DO mean "bull". :lol:
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Rasputin » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 14:37:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')indsor West MP and NDP border critic Brian Masse voiced his concern Thursday about the implications of the new surveillance measures.
"If we're going to continue to see weaponization that is used in conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq put on the Canada-U.S. border, saying that it's required for safety and security, it really changes the nature of our relationship," he said.

Ah well, give him time. Maybe give him some of that free mental health treatment.

Nothing is for free. Everyone here should get that one!
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Cashmere » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 14:42:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o, you're not getting it. You wanna know what's wrong with the US? Get up and look in the mirror. It's guys like you.

How could it be? I support almost nothing my government does - either party. Neither domestic policy nor international policy. So how could it be me?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')color=red]Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”[/color] If you didn't have pride issues, why insist on something that's clearly not the case, in so many ways?

Not true. I am embarrassed that my country has become a threat to world stability and every sovereign nation with resources worth taking.
It is the case. You're just too proud to see it. You have no military. You have few people. You have no allies in the world who could help you. Your resources are mainly shipped to the U.S.. Your people are relatively non-violent, as you point out. Oh yeah, and, as this news make clear, the day you become a "border threat", imagined by the neocons, you come under U.S. Military purview.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou go on about how necessary guns are, how unnecessary blacks having a culture and identity in any way distinct from yours is, and you seem to feel that your best means of convincing me of anything, ultimately, is to threaten me with home invasion and/or rape.

You're getting a bit hysterical here. Yes, I believe guns are important.
No, I never said, implied, or otherwise suggested that blacks should not have a separate culture. I think diverse culture is a valuable thing. What I clearly have written is that <i>destructive</i> culture is not.
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
What do suggest as a plan of action for a person at home with their children when some thug kicks the door off and comes in?
Just answer the question Claire. Why won't you answer the question Claire?
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
These things make me feel terrible. I don't like it here. I don't like this planet and I don't like how horribly humans treat animals and each other.
I say what I say because the only solace I've found here is truth. It's really all I have.
It's not easy. Most of my family believes I am a traitor because I have dared to suggest that American culture is rotten to the core and that I dare to suggest that our motivations in Iran/Iraq and around the world are greed and Imperialism.
It's not what I want. It's not fun. I get no thrill out of it at all.
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
Unless I am threatened, or an innocent is threatened, I am completely non-violent.
But if somebody comes into my home, then I am obligated to go into a defensive response.
I would take no thrill in hurting another person. In fact, I have little doubt that it would make my stay here even darker to have to hurt another to protect my own. But I will if I am forced to do it.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e don't agree on 99% of anything, as far as I can see.

Completely untrue. We both find American culture and Imperialism deeply disturbing.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Cashmere » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 15:27:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'Y')ou have no military. You have few people. You have no allies in the world who could help you. Your resources are mainly shipped to the U.S.. Your people are relatively non-violent, as you point out.

Yeah, we can also have the bomb anytime we want within two weeks, if push looks like shove's on the way. And it's not like we have to fly far to deliver it; strictly speaking, we wouldn't even have to cross the border. Not that we would, of course... the idea is to HAVE it, not the USE it, right? :)

You're arguing here that you could ramp up your military to compete with the U.S. or threaten a U.S. city? That's your response?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'O')h yeah, and, as this news make clear, the day you become a "border threat", imagined by the neocons, you come under U.S. Military purview.

And here you just told us we're no threat at all. What do you suppose the government knows that you don't?

Canada being no threat to the U.S. and the U.S. putting in place mechanisms to control/subdue Canada are not related.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
Asking a person who wants to ban guns what they would do if their home was invaded or if their country was invaded is a hypothetical question.
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'W')hat do suggest as a plan of action for a person at home with their children when some thug kicks the door off and comes in?You're being hysterical again, Caz.
I love it when they start using my material.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow, maybe your family buys what you shovel, Caz, but I don't. You're a little too focused on what you imagine your country can, and would, do to convince me otherwise. To you, this is just whipping out the Austrian crutch on an international scale. Spare us the prevarications.
I completely agree that this is just my best guess at what will happen. You have a different guess. But we'll have an answer soon.
One of your former leaders signed NAFTA, which was really bad for Canada. In essence, it obligates Canada to ship gas and oil to the U.S..

So as you watch your oil and gas bills start to rocket up in the next few years, you'll hear the call of your countrywomen to stop shipping the gas and oil to the U.S., or to raise the price above market to do so. Then we'll see. It will be here soon enough. You're young. You have time.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'W')e both find American culture and Imperialism deeply disturbing.
Yeah, but of the two of us, only I'm disturbed by seeing it in you.
The only thing you see in me is that I own a gun and I would use it.
That's it.
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
If there's something else about any political/social/moral beliefs that I hold that you think represent America as it is today, I'm curious to hear what they are.
Massive Human Dieoff <b>must</b> occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where <b>you</b> live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Nickel » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 15:48:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'Y')ou're arguing here that you could ramp up your military to compete with the U.S. or threaten a U.S. city?
That's your response?

I haven't heard anyone lately talking about wading ashore to straighten out North Korea like I used to in the 90s. It takes more? Do tell.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'C')anada being no threat to the U.S. and the U.S. putting in place mechanisms to control/subdue Canada are not related.

Like what "mechanisms"?
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'A')sking a person who wants to ban guns what they would do if their home was invaded or if their country was invaded is a hypothetical question.

That's how YOU look at it. I might see it a little differently, especially if it's repeatedly and pointedly asked of me.
Text deleted-FL. “COC: Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic.”
I'm not about the first too. And, honestly, Caz, don't flatter yourself. You're really not all that hard to deal with, trust me. :) I'm delighted you keep springing back up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')'m asking you a hypothetical question. You don't own a gun.

I never said that... when did I say I don't own a gun, exactly?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'H')ave you considered what you would do if one of your neighbors - not me or any other real person :P - kicked in your door and tried to rape and kill you?
No... because I don't live in a place where that's ever happened to me, or to anybody I know. I don't sit around worrying about what will happen if a rat with plague fleas gets in, or the place gets infested with cobras that escape from the zoo, either. I've got other things to worry about, Caz; things that really do happen and have happened to people I know. I'm sorry if you're living someplace where this is that real to you, but it simply isn't to me. And I want the people and government of my country to do everything they can to keep it that way.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I')'m sure many who are on the fence regarding guns would love to hear how you, with no guns or presumably any other form of weapon, would defend herself.
Well, you still haven't told us what YOU are going to do when the government comes to take YOU away to the camps (like it has to other US citizens, who now reside in Guantanamo Bay). You brought that up, so why don't you tell the fence-sitters YOUR big plan, Caz?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'I') love it when they start using my material.
Thanks; I'm a fan of irony myself. :)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'O')ne of your former leaders signed NAFTA, which was really bad for Canada. In essence, it obligates Canada to ship gas and oil to the U.S..
Yeah, it also obliged you guys to stop the tariffs on softwood lumber, and any number of international court cases backed that up. So I'm not too worried about, gosh, playing by the rules just when it suits YOU guys. Like you, we'll do what we decide's in OUR interests, if it comes to that.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'S')o as you watch your oil and gas bills start to rocket up in the next few years, you'll hear the call of your countrywomen to stop shipping the gas and oil to the U.S.
Well, then, that's when we'll stop.
And if you don't have the oil to roll the tanks or fuel the jets, and we do (however few you think they might be), what's YOUR plan?
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby pedalling_faster » Fri 08 Aug 2008, 16:17:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he United States will unveil new border surveillance measures Friday in a move that has one New Democratic MP decrying what he sees as the "weaponization" of the Canada-U.S. frontier.

in the last month there's been 2 news stories about beheadings, one on a bus in Canada, the other involving a case of (extreme) domestic violence in the US.

what are they worried about ? that the balance of beheading prone zombie's will be upset if they don't have more Coast Guard on the Great Lakes ? i got no problems with the part of Canada north of the Great Lakes. it's the bubbleChimp in Washington & his armada of private contractors that furrow my brow.

i wonder if the CIA or FBI pay domestic agents to go to events like the Sturgis bike-fest or Burning Man.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Rasputin » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 16:32:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'S')till no answer Nickel? What's your advice to people regarding home security? None?

For the most part they don't have to worry about home security in Canada. Heck, most there don't even lock their doors.
Free is just a loosely used word in some places...just an empty word.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Nickel » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 17:02:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'W')hat's your advice to people regarding home security?

Turn to one another. Trust in the basic goodness of people when they are not oppressed by need and want. Build a society that addresses the needs, and even some of the material wants, of the individual: remind the haughty rich that they are nothing without the labour of others; that in gaining the most from society, they owe the most back to it. Together, make the land strong by securing, as best you can, the health of the worker, the mother, the child, the least person. Strive to see yourself, and those around you, as a part of something, the same thing. You will not build a perfect society, completely free of want and malice and cruelty; such a society does not exist. But you will forge a better society, a kinder society, a happier and more contented one. A safer one. Look no further than the span of the Detroit River for your proof. The distance between Detroit and Windsor may be only a mile, but it is a ponderous mile indeed.

Only a fool doesn't lock his doors, in preference to his own privacy and possessions. But only a heel abandons mankind and arms himself against it, one and all.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby FoolYap » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 18:46:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', 'N')ew England would be nice.

"Welcome, our new overlords!" At least we'll get universal health care.
:-P :-)
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Nickel » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 18:48:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoolYap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', 'N')ew England would be nice.

"Welcome, our new overlords!" At least we'll get universal health care. :-P :-) -Steve

And some classy looking French on the groceries. :)
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby bl00k » Mon 11 Aug 2008, 19:05:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'B')reak-ins happen everyday, everywhere. What's your advice after "lock doors"?

You make it seem as though crime is sweeping each and every nation in the (western) world. It's not, really. Therefore the question is irrelevant. It doesn't happen often. To refer to your earlier mention of 'rape'; a very, very, small number of all rapes are committed by total strangers who break in your house, with a gun. Of all murders, a very, very small number are committed by total strangers who knock down your locked doors, holding a gun.

Why worry about a thing which is very unlikely to happen to you? Why make yourself feel unsafe? Why make your life less enjoyable? Living in fear makes a shit life.

Nickel's advice of building a 'superior' society still stands. But don't get me wrong, i'm not anti-guns. The opposite really, ask any of my friends and they'll call *me* the gun-nut. You're advice of 'shoot them in their f-cking face' is how i would feel in such a situation. But such a situation almost never happens. Why arm a society for that which almost never happens while in the meantime millions of guns are to be used by emotional, hysterical, unreliable and all in all crazy people?

But if they *do* knock down my doors. I'd protect what i hold dear, which is myself and the people around me. With what kind of weapon you ask? Dumb muscle, or anything that i can get a hold on. If they bring a gun, they win. They can take whatever they want, unless they give me a chance to kill them. I won't hesitate. Besides, having a gun won't guarantee you're safety. It will only protect you when you carry it *everywhere* and will only protect you from the typical kind of stupid criminal, burglars, and not from armed murderers or rapists.

Nonetheless, if Russia tries to take over Western Europe, our best bet will be to arm each and every citizen. Some kind of system like they have in Switzerland where every family has a gun stationed at home only to be used, by the Army Reserve-trained family member, in case Switzerland is attacked. The US won't have to fear any countries trying to invade it with large standing armies. Too bad though Americans now have to fear themselves.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Nickel » Wed 13 Aug 2008, 08:19:06

Yeah, and Caz is deliberately obtuse about the idea of working to create a society where appealing to objects of personal homicide is undesirable. You might as well insist on badgering someone as to whether or not he or she has built a ditch around his or her house to catch the flood waters in the face of someone suggesting the community might want to build levees and design flood control measures so the floods don't happen, or happen much more rarely. These are the practical considerations of the matter: I haven't experienced what he keeps threatening (no, not you yourself, Caz; get over yourself) will, nor do I know anyone who has. Caz's philosophy, writ large as the policy of a nation, makes him three times more likely to die by homicide than me.

Meanwhile, on the practical side of his argument, we're all still waiting to hear the exciting tales of just how many times he's spraypainted the walls of his bedroom with the brains of midnight interlopers, and how many little old ladies he's saved on the subway by blowing perps out the window and onto the third rail of instant justice. How about it, Caz?
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Ferretlover » Wed 13 Aug 2008, 08:38:02

Frankly, I've had more than enough of this OFF-TOPIC bickering.
Cease and desist-Now.
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Re: U.S. tightens security along Great Lakes border

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Sat 23 Aug 2008, 07:50:52

<b>Military showing the flag in Arctic</b>
ABOARD HMCS TORONTO, in Frobisher Bay -- Cmdr. Alex Grant scans the dark, frigid waters and stares down the enemy.

On the bridge of this 4,000-tonne warship, there's a tense calm. Crew members in black ball caps peer through binoculars or check the ship's position on glowing maps. Outside, heavy clouds hang low over treeless hunks of brown rock. Occasionally, an innocent-looking white cluster bobs along the slow-rolling sea.

For HMCS Toronto, these are uncharted waters. The navy frigate has handled dangerous missions, including deployments to hot spots such as the Persian Gulf and the Horn of Africa, but it has never sailed this far north. Until recently, Canadian navy vessels rarely ventured into the Arctic, a task that mostly fell to unarmed, red-hulled Coast Guard icebreakers. But as the Arctic ice melt accelerates, more vessels of all kinds are visiting Canada's northern waters. These days, "showing the flag" is becoming less of a symbolic exercise.

"Presence. Grey hulls. Red hulls. This is what sovereignty's all about," says Grant.

The Toronto is one of two navy ships taking part in Operation Nanook, the biggest Arctic sovereignty exercise in Canadian history. The military-led exercise involves roughly 600 personnel from the army, navy and air force, as well as officials from an unprecedented number of federal and territorial organizations, including the Coast Guard, RCMP, CSIS, Public Safety, Health Canada and Nunavut's Emergency Management Office.

"Some of what is taking place here has to do with what I would describe as testing of the boundaries, perhaps, of the Canadian North," said Defence Minister Peter MacKay, who flew here this week with Gen. Walt Natynczyk, Canada's chief of defence staff, to observe the exercise.

link

<i>Next month, military exercises are set to begin in Lake St Clair,
on the Canadaian US border, as a show of strength in response to US combat helicopter patrols. Just kidding.</i>

link
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Calls for president Bush to be arrested at Canadian border

Unread postby bencole » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 17:46:47

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0903 ... sh_calgary

Crazy, It won't happen in a million years, but technically it is a legal possibility, interestingly enough.
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Re: Calls for president Bush to be arrested at Canadian border

Unread postby jbrovont » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 18:03:50

Huh. Can't say I'd bat an eye if they did...wouldn't lift a finger either.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bencole', 'h')ttp://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090315/national/george_bush_calgary

Crazy, It won't happen in a million years, but technically it is a legal possibility, interestingly enough.
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Re: Calls for president Bush to be arrested at Canadian border

Unread postby Plantagenet » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 19:27:33

The Bush-haters can dream, can't they? :roll:
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Re: Calls for president Bush to be arrested at Canadian border

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 21:20:17

Back off, canucks. He may be a no good so-and-so, but he's OUR no good so-and-so. ;)
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