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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Its too bad the rest of the world is jealous of America

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Unread postby bobbyald » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 13:22:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he world is jealous of America


Everyday the UK gets more like the US.

Everyday I grow more convinced that we are heading in totally the wrong direction.
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 13:29:39

Yes, Specop_007, I think you've got a point. The rest of the world is jealous of America...the number of illegal immigrants is, at the very least, strongly suggestive. 8)
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Unread postby Malthus » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 13:47:39

Specop_007 this is sarcastic right?

Now lets go through a point by point rebutal

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nderstandable of course, given we have the most powerful military


US military power is pathetic by any standard. The US can not control military a medium 3rd world (almost stone age) country like Iraq without overstreching its ressources almost all of the combat ready divisions are pinned down in Iraq by 30-40000 light armed insurgents. Talk of draft become fashionable in the pentagon although the party that would resort to that is sure not to see president's office for a long of time.Most of the military personnel are fat bureacrats in bases in Germany, Japan , SK still preparing to repel a soviet (?!) attack. Generals and military planners live in Lo-La game box war land were marvelous robot planes and robot soldiers do the job, things are great you just need to pour down another few hundred billion(yes that is with nine digits) and everything will be fine, as their enemies (muslim fundamentalists) are tough people living in the objective reality. The average US soldier is a pathetic coward that thinks that dying for his shit suburbian country and a few bucks for Dick Cheney's friends aint good enough. Just compare that to the average german soldier's resolve to stand and fight against terribly overwhelming odds in WWII. The only real power that the US has is in its strategic nuclear arsenal but guess what Russia has this too and may turn all US cities population over 50000 into nuke craters and the US could do nothing to protect its citizens. China could easily produce a great amount of nuclear weapons in no time. Even worse third world rogue states with mad (or atleast seemingly mad) dictators like NK succesfully acquire nuclear weapons in order to avoid being bullied by the US Which encorages other maniacal regimes like Iran to acquire real WMD to become invasion proof.

Rule #1 of US warfare attack only defenseless countries, dont you even dare to think of invading someone that could put up a fight
Rule #2 Remember rule #1

Romans, byzantines,spanish, french, british and german at their prime would feel embarassed and offended by the feeble attempts of someone even to dare to compare them with the US.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a') world spanning economy


Hmm what economy dare I ask? Inrerior designers, wedding consultants lawyers, personal fitness trainers?Apart from the agriclutural and mining sector the US economy is dead or dying. The US depends solely on the knidness and complacency of strangers. When speculators complacency ends they can flush the $ down the toilet and maket worth only as toilet paper. Foreign central banks that hold big $ reserves are in a game theory like situation. They used to think that there were in an endlessly repetitif game where only cooperation in buying $ permited them to achieve Pareto optimum. Now they become aware that the game might have an end. And the Cartel is shatered by backward deduction reasoning like in the prisoners dilema. Some small players are already going for the exit most of the others know that something terrible is going to happen but dare not take action because of complacency when this ends Katy bar the doors. The unpegging of the Renminbi will the last chapter of the $.If there is a sudden collapse of the $ the US will experience a sudden collapse of its energy and manufacturing imports so I guess we will be stuck with the inrerior designers, wedding consultants lawyers, personal fitness trainers.
As all this unfolds John and Jane sink evermore in debt and economyths explain to the unsuspecting public that 55$/bl is not a problem,twin deficts are benign and foreigners want to invest in America.In that time smart rich guys like Waren Buffet , Soros and Gates are unloading $ and taking deliveries in precious metals especially silver.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'f')ree people


Americans are by far the most ignorant and stupid nation in the developped world. Yep guys no excuses here. 20% of us citizens believe that the sun goes round the Earth (?!? Jordano Bruno, Kepler, Copernicus and Galileo are turning in their graves) another 20% think that the Earth goes around the sun but in 1 (?!) day.
http://www.csicop.org/sb/9909/candle.html
Read and laugh. How many believe creation or other stupid ideas as ghosts, humans and dinasaurs, aliens in the back yard. How many believe in old time superstitions what about those abstinence programs to reduce teen pregancies and sexually transmited disease if you mention that to an european he would laugh at you. I was even able to watch a creation/evolution debate where respected scientists had to debate with lower life forms.What do the average Joe know about the scientific method. To me the so called US freedom seems more like freedom from knowledge if this is the case I prefer the cruelest tyranny. As Democrit put it some 2400 years ago "I d rather discover the cause of one thing than be the king of Persia"

The "ruling elite" clearly reflects the situation of the general public.
Last edited by Malthus on Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:12:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postby Licho » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 13:55:07

I don't think that people here (in europe) are jealous on america... life is good here there is really nothing to be jealous on .. (perhaps on 10x higher homicide rates?) But many people are angry on america. Not because of huge military power (america always had it) but because of specific actions, policy, and attitude in recent years..

Regarding the dream - yeah america had very strong "dream" and represented ideas, that were shining like a beacon for people living under communism and similar regimes. But now america is loosing it's shine, world just desn't buy all those lies, ecological ignorance and agressive foreing policy. EU itself as a project also represents a dream - for me it represents peacefull cooperation of very different countries and cultures that were fighting sworn enemies just few decades ago, overcoming of differences for greater goals (unity in diversity) and push for free, ecological and social world.
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Unread postby killJOY » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:03:21

Might be bait, might be serious. Who knows. Who cares.

Those who really think that way (a substantial majority, in my guess) are guilty of simple narcissism: as if the rest of the world has nothing better to do than preoccupy itself with comparisons to America.

And what about those of us who've been here all our lives?

In once sense, I can say, "I hate America," if by America you mean the Republicrat aristocracy, the neo-cunts, the religious nuts, and the crappy, anti-intellectual Rush-watching, SUV-driving public. If by America you mean just about anything else--Thoreau, Whitman, Melville, K.Chopin, Faulkner; Bird, Miles, Monk, 'Trane; banjo, fiddle & guitar; snowstorms in the Northeast and sunsets in the west; "Chinatown," "The Godfather," "American Beauty"; my fabulous friends and neighbors and students; my mom & dad, grandmas&grampas, and ancestors that settled here in 1900; then, goddamn, I love it.
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Unread postby tavewa » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:07:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', ' ')You have to sell people your dream. I think that America can do a better job on selling it's dreams to the world. On the other hand, I don't see any dream out of the America haters and that is their downfall.


That's exactly the point: We don't sell our dream to others, because we don't think dreams are for sale.

We just live our life and don't force anybody to do the same.
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:09:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', 'T')he U.S. is a debt-ridden oil junkie waving guns at everybody and threatening to invade countries unilaterally and torture and kill their residents in a bid to steal petroleum.


You say that as if it's a bad thing! 8)
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Unread postby DomusAlbion » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:11:32

Ach, Killjoy!

You have my chest swelling and my head nodding in approval.

Then you mentioned "American Beauty". :twisted: groan.
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Unread postby smiley » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:16:16

DomusAlbion.

Should I respect America because they saved our asses in 45? That also means that I should disrespect Germany because of the things they did in that period.

I greatly respect those Americans, like your uncle, who sacrificed themselves to save us. But that respect does not automatically extend to the nation to which they just happened to belong to.

Respect is not transferable from generation to generation. Just like I shouldn't blame the sons of the Nazi's for the crimes of their fathers, I shouldn't credit the sons of the WWII vets for the achievements of their fathers. Respect is something you have to earn.

Having said that. I don't hate the Americans. I just believe they are on the wrong track. They are steering the world into perilous waters and are not listening to any suggestions on an alternative course. At one point or another there will be no other option then to take the helm away from them.

According to Kingcoal, America is the country of dreams. Well..... I think it is time to wake up.
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Unread postby DomusAlbion » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:30:42

Smiley,

Well said. I can't disagree with most of what you said. This entire thread started as a reminder to KiddieKorral that the US or any nation is not either good or bad but a mix of actions that can have both good and bad results. Countries do go through cycles and power attained through whatever means (even the good actions of post WW II) tends to attract those who thirst for power for its own sake. I'm afraid that is what has happened to America. It has gone beyond tending to our national self interest into the aggrandizement of individual egos and their lust for power. Success has made the populace narcissistic and self indulgent.

Peak Oil and the consequent fall out may actually have beneficial results for the US.
"Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
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Unread postby Trab » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:41:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', '
')Peak Oil and the consequent fall out may actually have beneficial results for the US.


It will toughen up coming generations for sure. Nice to know my era will be treated in future history classes in the same terms that the late Roman Empire was. Decadent, spoiled, and unable to fend for themselves. 8)
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Unread postby Ercole » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:48:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', 'T')he U.S. is a debt-ridden oil junkie waving guns at everybody and threatening to invade countries unilaterally and torture and kill their residents in a bid to steal petroleum.


You say that as if it's a bad thing! 8)


:-D

Steal petroleum ?! Did you see the last prices these inferior countries want in exchange for this carcinogenic global-warming-multiplier stinking black liquid that mixes very bad with coke ?! 'Rather take some scottish firewaters... :P
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 14:56:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ercole', '
')
:-D

Steal petroleum ?! Did you see the last prices these inferior countries want in exchange for this carcinogenic global-warming-multiplier stinking black liquid that mixes very bad with coke ?! 'Rather take some scottish firewaters... :P


Exactly. Frankly, they ought to pay us for taking it off their hands. We take their oil, then send them a bill for services rendered. This idea has legs!

Hmm. I wonder how we can get a message to Rumsfeld? 8)
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Unread postby trespam » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 15:04:33

I just figured it out. Peakoil.com needs two areas.

(1) Those interested in topics like peak oil, economics, depletion, sustainability, and acting like adults and human beings.

(2) And then another section for the kids, the school yard bullies, the losers, those with too much time on their hand, and the rest of those who don't make contributions other than showing the rest of us why it is that we apparently evolved above whatever it is that they are.

And yes, this does have something to do with the original tone and level of the original post.
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 15:24:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', 'I') just figured it out. Peakoil.com needs two areas.

(1) Those interested in topics like peak oil, economics, depletion, sustainability, and acting like adults and human beings.

(2) And then another section for the kids, the school yard bullies, the losers, those with too much time on their hand, and the rest of those who don't make contributions other than showing the rest of us why it is that we apparently evolved above whatever it is that they are.

And yes, this does have something to do with the original tone and level of the original post.


Now, Trespam. You speak of "adults and human beings". The Easter Islanders were both - they destroyed their island, and turned to cannibalism. The Maya followed a similar path, as did the Vikings in Greenland - though, perhaps, without cannibalism.

Understand that you have some blindspots - as do I, as does everyone. Those can lead one astray; and, given the likely rigors of peak oil, I question whether we can afford the luxury of going off the path. The viewpoints of others - even if we find those views troubling, or offensive, or purile - are useful. Even if they simply remind us that a different perspective is operative among some.

If you think the present discussions are unpleasant, wait awhile - wait until the world economy is in dire straits, people are cold, and people are hungry. Stir in some fear. And you will see and hear things that you can scarcely imagine today. People are not, in my opinion, going to transition into a cooperative, sustainable lifestyle easily or peacefully.

Who knows, Trespam. Perhaps you'll convince me that a little cooperation wouldn't be such a bad thing. 8)

But don't get your hopes up. :lol:
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Unread postby spear » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 15:48:48

I´ll send a post card from somewhere in the Aegean this summer and show you how jealous I am.
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Unread postby trespam » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 16:46:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 's')carcely imagine today. People are not, in my opinion, going to transition into a cooperative, sustainable lifestyle easily or peacefully.

Who knows, Trespam. Perhaps you'll convince me that a little cooperation wouldn't be such a bad thing. 8)



I understand. I wasn't really commenting on that aspect. I just finished A Short Story of Progress [link]. I'm not ignorant of the fact that all order can break down.

I was primarily commenting on how silly some of these topics really are. It's like kids in a school yard. Particularly the nationalistic posturing.

People think that empty-headed posturing and bravado somehow will make our country stronger. I say take a look at this fellow's comments from before the election. [link]. He describes how Bush and company may very well be setting the US up for a fall. I'm sure the Bush administration is full of people who think--if that's the right word--like Specops and his silly threads. In fact, I suspect Bush thinks a lot like that.
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Unread postby Barbara » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 17:53:54

LOL spear that card will have my sign too!!! :lol:
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Unread postby Jack » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 18:08:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', 'I') was primarily commenting on how silly some of these topics really are. It's like kids in a school yard. Particularly the nationalistic posturing.


Point well taken. I suppose that three boards I view regularly - free republic, liberty post, and democratic underground - each have a substantial share of silly posts. When I say silly, I'm not applying my personal (numerous) ideological preferences, but rather to a complete and pointless diversion from the subject matter of interest to the various groups.

Perhaps it's just as well. As I reflect on the coming events, maybe some comic relief will be a treasure. :cry:
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Re: Its too bad the rest of the world is jealous of America

Unread postby Liamj » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 19:01:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I') think thats really what it is. The rest of the world is jealous of Americas might and power, and the only way they can express themselves is with anger and hatred at our obvious success.

Is that success at being worlds largest arms exporters?
Largest consumers of oil?
Largest avg bodyweight among land mammals (well, humans anyway :razz: )?
Largest creators of garbage per person?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'U')nderstandable of course, given we have the most powerful military, a world spanning economy, the de facto monetary standard in the world, free people, and a boatload of other benefits.
Whats this 'we' bullsh*t SO? You carrying enough brass (military rank) to 'use' any of that power? You immune to the draft, to body cavity searches at airports or being lied to daily? Or you just another of the Bush junta's serfs-in-denial?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'Y')ep, pretty understandable why the world hates America. Their simply jealous of our success, and cant hink of no other way to express themselves except with hate and anger.
You keep repeating that to yourself that SO, you're obviously incapable of quitting the mil-corp teat (or the fantasy thereof) and you'll need every ounce of reflected ego-support you can get.
(p.s. develop an addiction to help dull yr emotions too).
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