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Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby Starvid » Fri 01 Aug 2008, 18:56:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '1')) US has 9 firearm for 10 people.. and is on paper the most heavily armed country in the world, although a small proportion of the population will have multiple weapons.
Oops. You were right. :oops:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Country Guns per 100 residents

United States 90.0
Yemen 61.0
Finland 55.0
Switzerland 46.0
Iraq 39.0
Serbia 37.5
France 32.0
Canada 31.5
Sweden 31.5
Austria 31.0
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby Starvid » Fri 01 Aug 2008, 18:58:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '[')The problem is not so much the licensing but cost of the weapon. The act of 86 (Name eludes me now) froze the supply of full auto weapons. That means no full auto weapon made after 1986 is eligible for transfer to a private citizen. Additionally, no weapon prior to that is eligible if it wasnt already in circulation. Basically, once the law was passed in 1986 what was available was it. So now you have a huge demand for full auto weapons and a very tight supply.

What?! That's just insane! :lol:

Either you ban them outright, or you require a permit, or you legalize them completely, but what kind of absurd compromise is this?! :-D
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby Denny » Fri 01 Aug 2008, 20:20:18

It seems like as the tough times come our way, we'll see a pilferage of public goods coming. EVen in the Great Depresson, people had more respect for their fellow citizens, they'd rob banks but not vandalize public goods. Just think today, how much more vulnerable we are with all our telecommunications system, though as more if it is fiber optic, it has not much scrap value. But, all those street corner transformers sure do, and they are now at ground level, if somebody has the expertise to shut them off safely, and a tow truck to lift them off their base.

Recently, here in Canada too, in British Columbia, there has been a rash of mailbox thefts to enable identity theft and looting by credit card. There are just so many new ways to screw the public at large it seems, and easier than robbing banks.

As for the gruesome bus incident, they were dealing a total psycho there who was thrusting the knife in quickly and deeply, I think if anybody had a gun, by the time they'd have heard the screams and got the guy, the victim would already have been a goner. It would have given somebody the satisfaction of doing in the perp, that is likely all. But, I must say, I wish somebody did.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby neocone » Fri 01 Aug 2008, 21:03:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'A')s for the gruesome bus incident, they were dealing a total psycho there who was thrusting the knife in quickly and deeply, I think if anybody had a gun, by the time they'd have heard the screams and got the guy, the victim would already have been a goner. It would have given somebody the satisfaction of doing in the perp, that is likely all. But, I must say, I wish somebody did.

This is *EXACTLY* one of the few reasons use of deadly force is justified to*STOP* that kind of psycho. Meth addicts will also have that kind of behavior.

If attacked by a knife welding psycho, a self defense training class will advizes to kick the perp to get that 1-2 seconds where you can draw your weapon and fire off 5-8 rounds in a second or so (semi autos are that fast...), at a range of maybe < 1 meter.

Now if you see someone in grave imminent danger you are free to use your weapon to protect that person in most States. California is strangely accomodating of that fact. This is a more risky liability path (i.e getting sued by the perp after) but if you have witnesses and use common senses you can go ahead.

Lastly... use of firearms is indeed not for everyone. I find it strange no one had mace or even used any metallic bar on that psycho...

Sadly most perp will choose places they know are full of helpless victims. Like "gun free" schools or workplaces or shopping mall.

When seconds count... the Police is only minutes away.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby perdition79 » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 01:52:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'L')astly... use of firearms is indeed not for everyone. I find it strange no one had mace or even used any metallic bar on that psycho...

The "hero factor" is mostly Hollywood fantasy. Most tend to freeze up when they see an act of gruesome violence right in front of them; nobody wants to be next.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby mos6507 » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:32:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'O')bligatory shipment to Iraq for mandatory 1 year labor supporting the troops there upon conviction :-)

Which is as good as execution.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby the48thronin » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 02:59:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'T')he "hero factor" is mostly Hollywood fantasy. Most tend to freeze up when they see an act of gruesome violence right in front of them; nobody wants to be next.

Newbies to an infantry unit were trained what to expect... but as every veteran of combat knows, there are in fact 3 instinctive responses that will in fact be more powerful than most training on the FIRST encounter with instantly apparent violence and death:
1. Run
2. freeze
3 fight

Every person who undergoes that test knows for the rest of their life which of the three they had to learn to control to function as part of a team.

In the case in point, the heroism of blocking the attacker inside the bus with nothing but a crow bar, and the driver incapacitating the bus so it could not be driven off, while they awaited ARMED assistance from the police is about what you could expect from citizens untrained in violence or untested in combat.

I salute the citizens for their actions, and refuse to demand more of them to consider their actions heroic.

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now back to peak oil....
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby kokoda » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 06:12:15

I have had someone stand in front of me waving around a hunting knife. It isn't a pleasant experience.

The three options spoken of by the48thronin were in my mind.

Run and hope he didn't come after me.

Stand there and hope he calmed down.

Or attack and risk injury or death.

I ran.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby Starvid » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 12:06:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kokoda', 'I') have had someone stand in front of me waving around a hunting knife. It isn't a pleasant experience.

The three options spoken of by the48thronin were in my mind.

Run and hope he didn't come after me.

Stand there and hope he calmed down.

Or attack and risk injury or death.

I ran.
Good choice.
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby the48thronin » Sat 02 Aug 2008, 22:08:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kokoda', 'I') have had someone stand in front of me waving around a hunting knife. It isn't a pleasant experience.
The three options spoken of by the48thronin were in my mind.
Run and hope he didn't come after me.
Stand there and hope he calmed down.
Or attack and risk injury or death.
I ran.
Good choice.

I agree...and it worked too didn't it?
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby TWilliam » Sun 03 Aug 2008, 11:58:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '1')) US has 9 firearm for 10 people.. and is on paper the most heavily armed country in the world, although a small proportion of the population will have multiple weapons.


The important question tho' is how many of those armed citizens actually have any training (and more importantly, practice) in proper response techniques when confronted by one or more hostiles?

As has already been mentioned, there are certain instinctive responses that occur when one is surprised by a potentially dangerous situation, one of the first being a huge adrenalin dump, along with other 'fight or flight' chemicals. This has a very big impact on one's ability to think clearly. It also creates certain biological responses, one of the more significant ones being a sharp narrowing of one's field of vision.

One needs to spend a great deal of time developing automatic responses that involve proper drawing, aiming and firing of a weapon in order to become effective at answering a threat. Check out some of the defensive handgunning material from a fellow by the name of Jim Grover if you're interested. The cinematography tends to be kind of crappy, but the guy definitely knows his stuff.

(Incidentally, his preferred course of action is to avoid confrontation. He is not into the 'hollywood hero' bit...)
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 03 Aug 2008, 12:58:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'E')asily solved -

Crime for stealing public metal - minimum 1 year in jail.

Crime for accepting public metal at scrap yard from anybody but a public servant authorized to recycle scrap - minimum 10 years in jail.

What then for Greenspan/Bernanke?
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Re: Now they're stealing SEWER GRATES for crying out loud

Unread postby DarkDawg » Tue 05 Aug 2008, 08:39:51

...and catalytic converters

They were armed with cordless sawzalls.
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