[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'i') do not believe that rampant consumerism is inherent in the US economy, just in the one that emerged after WW2.

[arocoun]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'B')ut who is going to advocate the collapse of the US economy, which is based upon waste and excess?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('arocoun', ' ') But, you won't see me shed any tears if people get screwed from depending on this barbaric and self-destructive economy--they have it coming to them.

[arocoun]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree, arocoun, it's a rotten system. Have you managed to extricate yourself from it? I'd be interested to know how you did

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('arocoun', 'B')TW, it really sucks how many other young people are going to have to suffer the eventual problems of this system simply because they were raised in it; many just don't have the information or the choices necessary to do otherwise. You'll notice that when I usually talk about the system, I tend to say that I actually do worry about the young. Which is why I personally like to share my ideas about this economic and social system with lots of other people (including, especially, the younger people).

[hull3551]

Excellent thread.
First off, it's a common fact that US works the most of any industrialized nation. Most white collar people I know (Iused to be oe of them) are already working 50+ hour weeks and are basically reachable 24/7 in this wonderful technology age (via PDA, cell phone, e-mail, etc.) I think if it was reduced from 5 to 4 days, it would be an excellent opportunity for workers to be exploited even more. The saddest part is that they believe they need to work they jobs to make the money to afford the lifestyle that really is unfulling to them. ("I want to give my kids a beter life.") Bull.

Putting your kids in daycare, getting home after they're in bed, etc., is not giving them a better life. When you place more value intwo SUV's in the driveay versus having a sit-down-dinner with your family, then I truly feel sorry foor you. No wonder kids today do not want their parents slavery lifestyle. I've set a standard for myself (after working the 80+ hour weeks in corporate America) that if I ever can afford to drive anything nicer than a VW, I'm working too hard. (And not those fancy ones they just just came out with.)

[JohnDenver]

Here's another idea for conserving energy: Force all stores to close their doors on Sunday. IIRC, they had ordinances like this when I traveled to Bavaria.
The idea, as you can see, is to "trap" the American consumer -- force them once a week into a situation where they can't work OR consume. Yikes!

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')olice officers? Maybe if they get a call towards the end of their shift. Heck most cops i know hardly work! (comp time is very popular). Around here cops work under 8hrs per shift. You have a few guys who take all the overtime they can, because of greed(need?).

[j_bumble]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m very encouraged by the younger people I meet who want to live a different way and are preparing to do so. It's the older people I worry about more, the older you are, the more difficult change is, for most people.

[arocoun]

Why you wasting all that money buying land? Squat! After all, if the land isn't free, what is?

[j_bumble]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('arocoun', 'W')hy you wasting all that money buying land? Squat! After all, if the land isn't free, what is?

[Owl]

There is probably a significant number of people who could work mostly from home using the internet, I'm one of those people who can sign on to their company's systems from home to do work. They give us lap top computers to do this,...not me though...I use the fancy computer bag to bring my lunch to work. I'm far too busy reading about peak oil to do work at home in the evenings.

Young people today are not prepared, they've spent far too much time growing up in front of video screens instead of building tree houses, walking to school, working with mechanics. etc. Employees especially at lower levels in the corporate world will put increasing pressure for the 4 day week when it takes a full day's work each week just to fill up the gas tank to get to work.

[savethehumans]

At-home work sounds good to me! I can be in my jammies and do it!

[advancedatheist]

If each American has 8,000 energy slaves at his proposal, why did we need to do any work at all during the best years of the Oil Age? Buckminster Fuller, who invented the concept of energy slaves, thought it was absurd that we were wasting all that petroleum moving people to and from useless "service" jobs that didn't generate tangible "life support."

[HellMan]

I'm in an x-ray program right now in school. Many hospitals have a shift where you can work 12 hours on sat. and 12 on sun. and get paid for 40 hours. I'm eying that. 5 day vacation every week.

[energyaddict]

I would like to see a 3-day week with 10 hours a day. That could solve more problems as "only" the fuel consumption to go to work. My feeling is, that more or less all so called developed countries have an issue with unemployment - just the statistics are done very different, therefore you cannot compare the pure numbers given.

In companies without shift work the 10 hour day would give better usage to the equipment and - as the demand will be still there - they will have the chance to hire new staff to run the equipment the other days. In the first run we will solve the unemployment issue. Of course everybody will earn less now - due to reduced working hours. But: As the society does not need to feed all the unemployed there is room for lower taxes and social security payments. This way you won´t feel the pain to much.

As demand destruction due to constraints in availability of energy and raw material sets in the handling of that issue has to be different as in the past. Instead of laying of parts of the workforce, the working hours and payment for everybody has to be reduced, freeing up time for the employees to do gardening an the like to save what they earn less now.

That modell is advocating a soft landing, what my prediction is for the after PO time. It might seem to be leftist for many of you, but from my point of view it does not make any sense to have few people working harder and harder to make a living while supporting the jobless with their taxes and payments in the social security.

As the times of cheap energy comes to an end, so does the times of the bigger, faster, further society. We all have to face it, the future will bring less gadgets, smaller homes, less possessions, less working hours in the corporate world to all of us. On the other hand we will have better quality of life in terms of having more time with the family, doing together more work at home (gardening, repair, hand washing etc.) and focus more on our surrounding.

We - as the gobal community - now have the choice: Should we continue to compete who will have the biggest house, the most luxury car, the newest home entertainment? A big part of the society will lose in such a scenario - therefore there is a great chance that we get mass riots and a collapse of such society. Or should we all accept, that now there is less to share - so everybody get´s a smaller slice of the cake but everybody still is on the table? My personal choice is the second - maybe that is because I can afford to earn less? Dont´t know exactly...

[Doly]

The main reason most businesses prefer to squeeze people as much as possible and make them work overtime rather than hire part-time employees, is because the cost of 2 part-time employees is more than one full-time employee. This has to do mostly with taxes, if I understand the issue correctly.

In short, things like that will only become a permanent lifestyle if governments agree to it.

[energyaddict]

One step further: Gouvernment has to enforce that, employers and employees will not see the benefits on their own.

I have discussed such solutions for the unemployment issue we have in Germany on different occasions with friends. One out of four catchs the point, that you do not lose much if you earn less but have to pay less tax and social security. They fear that they will lose money and cannot affort their lifesyle in future. Together with PO you make them totaly upset....

[Ferretlover]

Utah state employees make switch to 4-day workweek By Brock Vergakis– 9 hours ago
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — Thousands of state employees began a new four-day work schedule Monday, making Utah the first state in the country to shut down most of its services on Fridays… The new schedule is intended to cut energy costs by as much as 20 percent by turning off the lights, the heat and air conditioning on Fridays in 1,000 of 3,000 government buildings. State officials estimate it will save about $3 million. … Associated Press

Soaring fuel prices drive some to try four-day workweeks By Stephanie Armour, USA TODAY
Escalating gas prices are prodding businesses and local governments to take a drastic step to curb costs: Many are cutting back to four-day workweeks, with employees generally working four 10-hour days instead of five eight-hour days.
... In Alabama, the city of Birmingham decided to adopt a four-day week for employees starting July 1.
… On June 2, road crews in Walworth County in Wisconsin will start working four-day shifts. Shane Crawford, a deputy administrator, said his county experimented with four-day workweeks last summer. Crews spent less time on the road driving to and from work sites, reducing fuel and overtime costs.
… Starting June 1, Avondale, Ariz., will move to a four-day workweek at City Hall. That eliminates one day of commuting for about 150 employees. ... USAToday

Fairfax To Consider Four-Day Workweek By Sandhya Somashekhar
Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, July 22, 2008 p B01
Fairfax County officials are weighing the merits of a four-day workweek for county employees, a move some said could reduce pollution and save money for workers as well as the government, even though it raises questions about how to maintain the quality of services.
… Late last month, Utah Gov. Jon M. Huntsman Jr. (R) announced that 17,000 state employees would move to a four-day week this summer, with each day lasting from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. Cash-strapped governments across the country are considering following suit as energy prices rise, said Jacqueline Byers, director of research for the National Association of Counties. ... Washington Post

Wayne County [NC] begins four-day work week 4 Aug 2008 Updated: Aug. 4 10:20 a.m
GOLDSBORO, N.C. — High energy prices mean big changes for some public employees in Wayne County. Several departments are switching to a four-day work week, beginning Monday.
County officials said they are hoping a shorter week will help the county's bottom line. Although many would love to work four days instead of five, not everyone is excited about the change. … link

[Ferretlover]

It's starting to catch on:
Hoyer Advocates for a Four-Day Work Week By Joe Davidson
Fri, 22 Aug 2008 pg D04:
Like long weekends? House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) is pushing a work week of four, 10-hour days for federal employees.
In a letter, released this week, to the Office of Personnel Management, he asked the agency to "undertake comprehensive analysis of the transitioning to a 4-day work week for all possible federal employees and inform me by August 31, of any additional actions Congress would need to take to implement such a policy by the end of fiscal year 2008."
Hoyer acknowledged that federal agencies and departments "already have discretion to implement alternative work schedules." …
He noted that "state and local governments across the nation, including New Mexico, Virginia, and Utah, are implementing 4-day work weeks to conserve energy, reduce fuel consumption, and alleviate congestion. …
Washington Post

Chrysler pushes four-day workweek The automaker will begin talks with UAW about switching some plants to a shorter workweek of 10-hour days, in an effort to cut costs. 11 Aug 2008:
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. (AP) -- Chrysler LLC soon will begin talks with the United Auto Workers union about moving some plants to a four-day workweek of 10-hour days instead of the current five-day weeks, a spokesman for the automaker said Monday. …
The change would allow the company to shut down parts of the plants for three full days, bringing a significant savings, Saenz said during a conference for auto executives in Traverse City, Mich. ...
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