[Narz]

There seems to be a trend among doomers to view a "fast crash" and a good thing. (for instance Rocc : "The lights can't go out fast enough!").

I'm wondering if people would care to elaborate on why they think this is so and also to get a sense of how many people believe this (hence the poll).

It seems to me that if the world crashed tomorrow (hypothetical - please save the debating of what actually will happen for another thread) likely we will retain very little of either the positive aspects of modern life (human rights, understanding of science, etc.) or of so-called primitive-life (strong sense of community, traditional skills, respect for nature, etc.) and humanity, as a whole, will suffer miserably for a hundred years or more before we finally start crawling out of the trough.

It also seems to me (based on my admittedly limited historical knowledge) that when a great yet corrupt empire falls usually chaos is left in it's wake. For example when the Roman empire collapsed Europe fell into a dark age lasting a thousand years.

As opposed to a fast crash, a slower crash on would give humanity more of a chance to learn from it's mistakes & salvage the best of civilization for the future. A significant economic downturn might wake people up, might not. A continued steady technological & at least steady economy doesn't necessarily mean that people will continue to be so materialistic. After all this way of life isn't particularly fulfilling.

As for me I voted for #3 because I don't think any sort of collapse of "LAWKI" will lead to a more enlightened mass. The free information available today (Internet, etc.) is a force for good. A "crashed" world of low-tech isolated communities will allow the worst type of dictators, militarists, manipulators, etc. to rise to power & control their "tribes". Even assuming we went straight back to non-expansionist hunter-gatherers it'd just lead to history repeating itself as soon as someone released that by amassing resources & exploding the local population one could create armies to crush one's neighbors & take what was their's. In this respect scenario #2 might be better than #1 but still inadequate.

Anyway, these are just by off-the-cuff thoughts for this spur of the moment thread. Regardless of what you voted feel free to share what you do think would follow the type of collapse (or lack therefore) you think will occur (but remember, don't vote in the poll what you think will occur, just what you think would be ideal) and why you think it will be better or worse than now.

Cheers,
Narz

[Ludi]

"What would be best" and "what would bring out the best" seem like different questions to me.

A fast total crash might enable the biosphere to retain features which will support human life (mankind).

What will bring out the "best in humanity"? I have no idea. Things could go badly in a fast crash, possibly even worse in a slow one.

[MadScientist]

I chose fast crash for two main reasons:

1. resource depletion. Once you realize dieoff is inevitable, it logically follows that the sooner it happens the more will be left to rebuild with.

2. globalization. Fast crash would be the end of the New World Order, at least on a global scale. Which imo is a very, very good thing for humanity.

polar shift is a nice example of a fast crash scenario. and so much of our collective mythology and science backs it up. Anyways, not trying to derail the thread here, but keep in mind there are more crash scenarios then just peak oil.
Reminds me of what Bob Woodward said to David Letterman when he asked him how much the American people understands about what's really going on in the world: "less than 1%"

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', 'I') chose fast crash for two main reasons:

1. resource depletion. Once you realize dieoff is inevitable, it logically follows that the sooner it happens the more will be left to rebuild with.

[kpeavey]

For the greatest chance to adjust, people need time, hence a slow crash is best. Facing challenges is what brings out the best, as well as the worst in people. I voted slow crash.

As for the greatest good for the planetary ecosphere and carrying capacity, tear the band aid off as fast as you can.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'A')s for the greatest good for the planetary ecosphere and carrying capacity, tear the band aid off as fast as you can.