Cube, I would say that sail will come back because it costs nothing to fuel. It costs a lot in maintenance, but so does a boat that uses gas. Remember that a boat is a hole in the water you throw money in to.
I just got back from using my solar boat. It's the easiest thing imaginable. A battery, a flexible solar panel and an electric trolling motor. No charge controller, just a blocking diode. It sits and charges for a few days, and I use it to cruise around the harbor.
It's the cheapest and easiest boat I've ever had.
Why couldn't this be scaled up? We could use flexible solar panels as the sails and use electric motors to move the boat when the wind isn't blowing or when maneuvering in port.
The hull would have to be different from the ones we're using now. I don't think we'll be using much of the stuff we made in the 20th century in the 21st. It will provide some nice raw materials maybe.
I checked out about 10 schooners with my solar boat. The Victory Chimes has been carrying lots of people and cargo for over 100 years around the coast of Maine and is still doing it:
http://www.sailmainecoast.com/victorychimes.htm
PeakOil is You
Return of the Tall Ships
Re: Return of the Tall Ships
by Revi » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 07:52:44
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Return of the Tall Ships
by vtsnowedin » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 10:22:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'C')ube, I would say that sail will come back because it costs nothing to fuel. It costs a lot in maintenance, but so does a boat that uses gas. Remember that a boat is a hole in the water you throw money in to.
I
_ As true as the hole in the water quip is , it only applies to pleasure boats. All commercial ships are built for the sole purpose of making a profit on each and every voyage. If there is no possibility of a profit these ships will stay tied to the dock or be cut up for scrap. If using a kite increases profits they will use them. If a modern design hull with kevlar sails deployed automatically from inside steel masts can get there cheaper than a diesel powered boat they will build them. As oil becomes more precious I expect that state of the art steam turban driven vessels fueled by coal will be the way they go first. If the cost of shipping gets to high Walmart will fill its shelves with goods made closer to home. Might be a good thing.I
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Re: Return of the Tall Ships
by kokoda » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 10:53:46
As long as we are talking renewable energy for powering ships then how about using wave power?
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/02/27/ ... ered-ship/
http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2008/02/27/ ... ered-ship/
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Re: Return of the Tall Ships
by cube » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 12:34:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '.')..
I just got back from using my solar boat. It's the easiest thing imaginable. A battery, a flexible solar panel and an electric trolling motor. No charge controller, just a blocking diode. It sits and charges for a few days, and I use it to cruise around the harbor.
It's the cheapest and easiest boat I've ever had.
Why couldn't this be scaled up? We could use flexible solar panels as the sails and use electric motors to move the boat when the wind isn't blowing or when maneuvering in port.
hmm, I think I read about that in popular mechanics a long time ago.
I just got back from using my solar boat. It's the easiest thing imaginable. A battery, a flexible solar panel and an electric trolling motor. No charge controller, just a blocking diode. It sits and charges for a few days, and I use it to cruise around the harbor.
It's the cheapest and easiest boat I've ever had.
Why couldn't this be scaled up? We could use flexible solar panels as the sails and use electric motors to move the boat when the wind isn't blowing or when maneuvering in port.
I'm going to have to be honest and admit I too have a "bias"!
Call me conservative but I think Technologies that have a history of actual use carries more weight. Granted just because something has proven itself in the past doesn't guarantee it will be the preferred choice in the future, but at least it has proven itself at least once!.....which is more than can be said for a new speculative technology.
now having said that....
If we look at the history of commercial shipping, sailboats were already being abandoned even before the advent of the ICE (internal combustion engine.) Coal powered steam ships became the preferred choice and superseded sail boats.
why?
What is it about sailboats that made them so undesirable that even a ridiculously inefficient 19th century coal powered steam ship was considered a superior replacement!
that's what I want to know?
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Re: Return of the Tall Ships
by Tanada » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 12:49:58
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '.')..
I just got back from using my solar boat. It's the easiest thing imaginable. A battery, a flexible solar panel and an electric trolling motor. No charge controller, just a blocking diode. It sits and charges for a few days, and I use it to cruise around the harbor.
It's the cheapest and easiest boat I've ever had.
Why couldn't this be scaled up? We could use flexible solar panels as the sails and use electric motors to move the boat when the wind isn't blowing or when maneuvering in port.
hmm, I think I read about that in popular mechanics a long time ago.I just got back from using my solar boat. It's the easiest thing imaginable. A battery, a flexible solar panel and an electric trolling motor. No charge controller, just a blocking diode. It sits and charges for a few days, and I use it to cruise around the harbor.
It's the cheapest and easiest boat I've ever had.
Why couldn't this be scaled up? We could use flexible solar panels as the sails and use electric motors to move the boat when the wind isn't blowing or when maneuvering in port.
I'm going to have to be honest and admit I too have a "bias"!
Call me conservative but I think Technologies that have a history of actual use carries more weight. Granted just because something has proven itself in the past doesn't guarantee it will be the preferred choice in the future, but at least it has proven itself at least once!.....which is more than can be said for a new speculative technology.
now having said that....
If we look at the history of commercial shipping, sailboats were already being abandoned even before the advent of the ICE (internal combustion engine.) Coal powered steam ships became the preferred choice and superseded sail boats.
why?
What is it about sailboats that made them so undesirable that even a ridiculously inefficient 19th century coal powered steam ship was considered a superior replacement!
that's what I want to know?
Mostly it is a function of the Cubed Squared law of physics, as the volume of the ship goes up by the cube function the sail area only goes up by the squared function and the speed drops significantly the larger the volume of the ship. A coal/oil/fission powered ship does not face this challenge because the driving force is very energy dense compared to wind and does not consume nearly as much of the ships cargo capacity as masts and sails and crew do.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alfred Tennyson', 'W')e are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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