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Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Twilight » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 15:21:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'C')ome on Britain. Time for a revolt.


Or maybe stop using it like I did years ago? I don't know, what's easier?
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby idiom » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 17:06:28

For an aircraft that looks so fricking awesome, the Avro Vulcan must be one of the most disappointing bombers ever.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Starvid » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 17:21:16

You should have done like the French and had your energy companies run as state monopolies which by law cannot raise energy prices at a higher pace than inflation. Obviously these state run behemoths are extremely efficient and profitable as they are run by highly skilled technocrats with a penchant for nuclear power.

Indeed, French monopolies will run the new British nuclear power programme!

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Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: British Gas Raises prices 35% IMMEDIATLEY

Unread postby Starvid » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 17:23:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'T')he interconector pipeline connecting UK to Europe is currently running flat out supplying gas at very cheap rates FROM the UK, due to low summer demand.
Because you guys never built any underground gas storage like the "backward socialist" French and German governments did.

Sell the gas cheap to the Continent during summer and buy it back at high prices during winter!

Go Maggie! :lol:


edit: uh-oh... is that a Trident heading my way? :shock:
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Byron100 » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 17:55:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'A')lso, yes our current "energy arrangements" are abysmal. Like I said, shoot the bastards. We need engineers in control, not shiny arsed accountants.
As I and others have said before, TSHTF this coming winter.
Gasmon

Preach it man, preach it... :-D We call 'em "bean counters" over here...and golly, wouldn't the world be a better place without these blank-faced idiots. :twisted: Such evil, evil, nasty people....
Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide...
...and the meek shall inherit the Earth!
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby dukey » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 18:42:28

the UK is totally f.ucked when it comes to gas
we built our infastructure on the assumption cheap gas would last forever .. and of course the north sea is in rapid decline
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby PeakOiler » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 19:27:04

Sorry to interupt this thread, but I just wanted to say the humor in some of these posts are brilliant!
Carry on.
<--rofl
There’s a strange irony related to this subject [oil and gas extraction] that the better you do the job at exploiting this oil and gas, the sooner it is gone.

--Colin Campbell
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby alokin » Wed 30 Jul 2008, 20:21:49

Starvid wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou should have done like the French and had your energy companies run as state monopolies which by law cannot raise energy prices at a higher pace than inflation.

That's exactly what it is. In Germany they begun in the 90th (as far as I remember) telling state run companies are inefficient and so on an privatized a whole lot.
For the customer it turned ALWAYS out to be a disaster, post offices closing, electricity prices rising and so on.
There are some good examples of privatization like the city of Schoenau which produces their own renwable energy, but they are not private run companies.
Private run companies took over key sectors of whole countries which was run by the states abd there were good reasons.

I think that the governments were short of money, thay sold everything worth to patch holes.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby cube » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 03:09:17

look into these eyes what do you see?
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I see higher natural gas prices! :wink:
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby KevO » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 08:16:32

boys. the piss is being taken
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onsumer groups have expressed anger as British Gas owner Centrica revealed £5m-per-day profits, after announcing a record price hike on Wednesday.
Profits were £992m in the first six months of 2008

BBC News
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 10:38:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', 'Y')ou should have done like the French and had your energy companies run as state monopolies which by law cannot raise energy prices at a higher pace than inflation. Obviously these state run behemoths are extremely efficient and profitable as they are run by highly skilled technocrats with a penchant for nuclear power. Indeed, French monopolies will run the new British nuclear power programme!

So what happens when the real cost of energy (yes, energy has a real cost) rises faster than inflation?

Does the government just subsidize the electricity and encourage wasteful excess?

Consumers still have to pay for it, in the form of higher taxes.

Governments should never mask price signals. It just encourages inefficient behavior. Look at Iraq. We give them basically free gasoline and they turn around and sell it for a profit to their neighbors.

Hopefully these higher gas bills will encourage British consumers to figure out a way to reduce their energy consumption and switch to alternatives to gas.

Moving the responsibility from consumers to goverments (aka, taxpayers) is bad public policy.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Sketh » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 10:49:10

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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Twilight » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 14:07:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'G')overnments should never mask price signals. It just encourages inefficient behavior.

Spot on. These prices are the market telling people to use less before the cost bankrupts us, before foreign governments supply the overwhelming majority of our energy inputs, or before our ability to pay is at the mercy of SWF funding. One way or another, people will pay until they cut back.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 14:21:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'S')o what happens when the real cost of energy (yes, energy has a real cost) rises faster than inflation?
That's the beautiful thing. As 80 % of the electricity is nuclear, which has extremely stable and fixed costs that don't depend in the least on the price of oil, costs don't rise at a pace greater than inflation.
The big cost is interest on the loans the French government issued and backed 30 years ago when the plants were built. Very stable, low and predictable costs. :wink:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'D')oes the government just subsidize the electricity and encourage wasteful excess?
Nope.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'C')onsumers still have to pay for it, in the form of higher taxes.
Nope. EdF has not recieved a single centimme from the state. Indeed, the balance sheet has been raided by several governments in the form of "extra dividends" and is used as a tool to fight inflation, via those price rise limitations mentioned above.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'G')overnments should never mask price signals. It just encourages inefficient behavior. Look at Iraq. We give them basically free gasoline and they turn around and sell it for a profit to their neighbors.
Wouldn't you do that too? ;)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'H')opefully these higher gas bills will encourage British consumers to figure out a way to reduce their energy consumption and switch to alternatives to gas.Mayve by copying the French system? ;)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'M')oving the responsibility from consumers to goverments (aka, taxpayers) is bad public policy.Yes. So it's such a good thing the French haven't done that, don't you agree? ;)
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 14:32:36

We're talking about two different things.

Nuclear power has a very predictable cost scheme whereas natural gas has fluctuating price scheme.

If Britain were to build a mostly nuclear-based power grid, they could have a stable state-run enterprise.

But creating a state run natural gas based electric grid and demanding stable electric rates means exposing taxpayers to massive losses.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby Starvid » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 16:59:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'B')ut creating a state run natural gas based electric grid and demanding stable electric rates means exposing taxpayers to massive losses.
That I agree with. But if someone base his grid on gaspower, he deserves to be kicked in the teeth. That should teach him and others not to repeat such silliness.
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Re: Gas bills up 35% - with effect immediatly!

Unread postby cube » Thu 31 Jul 2008, 17:14:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Twilight', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'G')overnments should never mask price signals. It just encourages inefficient behavior.

Spot on. These prices are the market telling people to use less before the cost bankrupts us, before foreign governments supply the overwhelming majority of our energy inputs, or before our ability to pay is at the mercy of SWF funding. One way or another, people will pay until they cut back.
I totally agree.....Unfortunately that's not how the public sees it.
Without fail, society ALWAYS turns communistic and demands the government to "do something": punish the speculators, windfall profit taxes, price controls, rations, export restrictions, etc...
It's very predictable. It always happens the same way whenever there is a "crisis".
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