[FourOfSwords]

'I think that we, women and men, have become chess pieces' ~ Only if you let yourself be.
Alex

[FourOfSwords]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'H')omo sapiens did not evolve as "rugged individuals" but as members of a group.

The American ideal of the rugged individual paddling his own canoe through life is not a healthy model for most of us.

There are some primate species who are rugged individuals, but Homo sapiens is not one of them.

Rugged individual:





edited to try not offend

[coberst]

“In Mexico, farmers who noticed velvetbean growing wild in their fields used it to increase soil fertility and improve maize yields. In Northern Ethiopia, farmers reclaimed farmland from a river by constructing walls in the river bed and diverting the water flow. In India, an innovative farmer designed a tree plantation that successfully survived a severe three-year drought. Farmers' innovations have stood the test of time and hold the potential to meet the challenges of increasing production and managing the natural resource base.

During the last 40 or 50 years, however, many farmers have relied less on their own experimentation and innovation, and become more dependent on outside information provided through extension systems. This has had the effect of disempowering many farmers, as they became passive recipients of knowledge and technology.”
http://www.farmradio.org/english/public ... 003sep.asp

[neocone]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3339863/

As we all know, most "science" and "progress" is now only reflected in video games and the internet. A new search engine is hailed a breakthrough development. Yet:

1) Cancer is still undefeated.

2) Freedom of movement just keeps on sucking more and more.

2) Mysticism, religious fundamentalism, feudalism, and slavery (including of women) are back thanks to cheap food and medecine... enabling idiots to breed like rabbits and become the majority on the planet.

3) Seems every bit of advance done so far has also been misused... like planes for 911, or cell phones used to sell drugs or coordinate the actions of warlords in Somalia.

4) Cheap food only promotes obesity.

In the end, the only thing Malthus said was that there will always be rich and poors. "Vilains you are, vilains you will be" said the King of England to commoners who seized control of London in the 14th century, only to be crushed mercilessly after negotiating a peace where the nobles ignored the accord they did with them.

Just like needles park in Geneva where drug addicts where left to roam unimpeded in their drug use, it seems to me that the lower class only miserably misused the opportunities given to them by cheap energy...

Peak Oil will just be Nature's way to recreate a rigid class structure, where the top .5 % will live very very very well.

[MadScientist]

Or, we could throw out the crooks, spit on the memory of western civilization, put the women back in charge, and usher in the Age of Aquarius with love in our hearts and minds. your choice.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', 'h')ttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3339863/

As we all know, most "science" and "progress" is now only reflected in video games and the internet.

[neocone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', 'O')r, we could throw out the crooks, spit on the memory of western civilization, put the women back in charge, and usher in the Age of Aquarius with love in our hearts and minds. your choice.

[neocone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')What a bunch of Bullschitt.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', 'O')r, we could throw out the crooks, spit on the memory of western civilization, put the women back in charge, and usher in the Age of Aquarius with love in our hearts and minds. your choice.

[35Kas]

If you think the ongoing improvement of those things doesn't matter then I suggest you try and cross the Atlantic with a 2000 y/o design boat or try to browse this website in a 1950 computer.

Things are always being invented and improved upon, although slowly, but surely. You just don't realize it and forget how these things make our lives easier every day.

Improvements in medicine, genetics, engineering, biochemistry, physics all make an impact on our lives for the better, be it the engineering of pest resistant crops, the ever increasing success rates of treating cancer, more efficient engines, etc.

Most of us in this board would not survive long without all the amenities we have grown accustomed to. Surely life in 1950 wasn't essentially all that different than today (in the first world), but I'd give a kidney to live today instead of back then.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I agree in overall with Neocone's points.

Further progress will only facilitate catabolic collapse resulting in ruin of all, equality and all sort of "rights" will be gone and referred to as a "hubris" by societies of the future.

[neocone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('35Kas', 'M')ost of us in this board would not survive long without all the amenities we have grown accustomed to. Surely life in 1950 wasn't essentially all that different than today (in the first world), but I'd give a kidney to live today instead of back then.

[Homesteader]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '
')Anyhow... I am no luddite but one needs a lot of intelligence to parse out the (few) good thing among countless crap brought on by "progress".

[nutmeg]

Just like needles park in Geneva where drug addicts where left to roam unimpeded in their drug use, it seems to me that the lower class only miserably misused the opportunities given to them by cheap energy...

So true! I play in a string ensemble as well as a country fiddle group. Both are a self selected elite.

All the past attempts to do "equality" did result in some people doing cultural things like playing violin who would not have otherwise, but they ONLY did it as a means to an end -- e.g. to get a scholarship so they could go to a college and make a lot of money, etc. When they jumped through their prescribed hoops, the violin and the phony "ideals" they wrote about went out the window. As it turns out, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so it's better not to waste money trying.

Let the cream rise to the top on it's own. Let the sediment sink to the bottom on its own.

[kellan1776]

Equality has been and always will be an illusion. Its impossible to create an equitable state although some have tried. People are not created equal; under the law perhaps but not in everything else. Progress is subjective.

[Farknight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')quality has been and always will be an illusion.

[kellan1776]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')What a bunch of Bullschitt.

[Byron100]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('neocone', '
')
Peak Oil will just be Nature's way to recreate a rigid class structure, where the top .5 % will live very very very well.

[Byron100]

When I was a kid, they called me "Mr Destructo", as I was just totally enamored with the idea of destroying things. (like my Lego creations, for example) Why I'm not a demolition specialist, it's a total mystery. Talk about the ultimate dream job...hehe. Imagining huge buildings falling down was one of my favorite daydreams as a child - seriously.

So yeah, call me a total loon, it's a label I wear with pride, but I just love destruction, of all kinds. I know 10,000 BC was a dumb-ass movie, but that scene at the end in which the rebels managed to unleash all that destruction upon that pyramid city made it all worthwhile...man, that was fun!

Consider it one of my little vices...hehe.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Byron100', 'W')hen I was a kid, they called me "Mr Destructo", as I was just totally enamored with the idea of destroying things. (like my Lego creations, for example) Why I'm not a demolition specialist, it's a total mystery. Talk about the ultimate dream job...hehe. Imagining huge buildings falling down was one of my favorite daydreams as a child - seriously.

So yeah, call me a total loon, it's a label I wear with pride, but I just love destruction, of all kinds. I know 10,000 BC was a dumb-ass movie, but that scene at the end in which the rebels managed to unleash all that destruction upon that pyramid city made it all worthwhile...man, that was fun!

Consider it one of my little vices...hehe.