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Oil In Antarctica

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.
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Unread postby nth » Tue 15 Mar 2005, 17:09:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', 'I') suspect that the EROEI would be less than 1. That is, I think that extracting and exporting oil from Antarctica would probably take more energy than it would produce..


Back to energy requirements, EROIE are not being used in the oil industry. I really don't think it will play a role in whether they go drill there or not.


No, but EROIE is a proxy for profitability. The oil companies will not extract and ship oil from Antarctica unless they can make a profit at it. If it ends up taking them 2 barrels of oil (at let's say $150/bbl) to deliver 1 barrel of Antarctica oil to China or some other market, then they have lost $150 dollars on that barrel, in addition to the overhead costs of constructing the well, the pipeline, the port, and the tanker. Oil companies are not in business to lose money, and when EROIE on a given oil field less than one, they will not be interested in that oil field. This is all but certainly the case for Antarctica, or at least the bulk of the continent that is under the ice. The EROIE on a coastal or offshore oil field just might be greater than one.


Hrm... that is exactly my point! If it is economicly not feasible, then they won't do it. Economics is not exactly the same as EROIE. Oil will become more valuable than say Natural Gas or Wood or bad quality charcoal even if in measured by energy yield that can be harnest from the other sources.

As for offshore, they are doing in the Arctic and their costs are under $18, so Antartica offshore is feasible in the future.
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Unread postby nth » Tue 15 Mar 2005, 17:16:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')If anything you just proved my point. I said very few wells are dug below 2,000 meters. At 2,002, there is still ice, meaning that you would have to drill even deeper than that to hit oil. It is simply not feasible.

On top of that, if the temperture is too low, then the oil is going to be very viscious, making it even harder to produce oil. Antarctica is not going to produce any oil at all.



It is simply not feasible?
You should look up Russian scientific drilling in Antartica.
Again, you are claiming one cannot drill through rock. Show me any rock that people cannot drill through.
Temperature issues- Artic drilling is already done. I don't think that is a big problem. Also, it is not that cold where the oil is. It is cold when oil gets pumped up, but that can be mitigated.
The idea that you cannot drill and pump oil in Antartica is not true. As far as it is economicly feasible that is another question and that I can say right now, it is not.
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Unread postby 0mar » Tue 15 Mar 2005, 19:32:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nth', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')If anything you just proved my point. I said very few wells are dug below 2,000 meters. At 2,002, there is still ice, meaning that you would have to drill even deeper than that to hit oil. It is simply not feasible.

On top of that, if the temperture is too low, then the oil is going to be very viscious, making it even harder to produce oil. Antarctica is not going to produce any oil at all.



It is simply not feasible?
You should look up Russian scientific drilling in Antartica.
Again, you are claiming one cannot drill through rock. Show me any rock that people cannot drill through.
Temperature issues- Artic drilling is already done. I don't think that is a big problem. Also, it is not that cold where the oil is. It is cold when oil gets pumped up, but that can be mitigated.
The idea that you cannot drill and pump oil in Antartica is not true. As far as it is economicly feasible that is another question and that I can say right now, it is not.


I never said that we can't drill through rock. Hell, that's what drilling is all about. I'm saying that we can't get to any oil in Anartica with our current level of drilling technology.
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Unread postby mortifiedpenguin » Tue 15 Mar 2005, 23:34:15

<joke> Hey guys, I've got an idea! Let's just sneak our way up there! Then we can take the oil and no one will ever know we violated the international laws. </joke>

Ha ha. Ho ho. Hee hee. :-D
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Unread postby Licho » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 07:56:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bandidoz', 'I') wonder when Al-Quida are going to set up camp there? :P

Yeah, fox news recently reported that penguins are training insurgents and terrorists there, while sea lions are secretly enriching uranium! America has to act now! ;-)
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Unread postby nth » Mon 21 Mar 2005, 18:54:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')I never said that we can't drill through rock. Hell, that's what drilling is all about. I'm saying that we can't get to any oil in Anartica with our current level of drilling technology.


Finally, we are in agreement.
Yes, without further innovation, current technology will not make oil production economically feasible. That was not my point. My point was the idea that it is impossible to drill there because of ice/rock/weather.

It is difficult, but all the challenges listed are being overcome. The only thing preventing actual oil drilling is economics and international law and once those are resolved by PO, the technology part will be easy.
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Unread postby eric_b » Mon 21 Mar 2005, 22:27:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hawkcreek', 'I') work in the Prudhoe Bay oil fields. It isn't that difficult to operate at 50-60 below zero, if you have enough spare energy. Remember that after the first well is drilled, you literally have energy to burn. Letting your vehicles run 24/7 and hooking up diesel fired heaters to every work station is standard operating procedure when it gets below 30 below.

The south pole would be difficult, but no-where near impossible.
A mile of stable ice would not be a show-stopper either. If it starts to move around, however, that would be messy.


Well, no one is saying it's impossible to drill for oil in Antarctica -- just very very difficult and costly. Like I said earlier, it would likely take a Ghawar league field to justify the effort.

First, the ice sheet is not static. It's quite fluid. The ice tends to drain/flow towards the sea, but the flow rate is not uniform. It tends to flow downhill (like water) and converge into ice streams, which can flow hundreds of feet per year.

The flow also various with depth. It's safe to assume all the ice is moving inches to feet per year. I imagine this would wreak havok with any drilling attempts, especially through hundreds to thousands of meters of ice.

Antarctica is surrounded by sea ice for over half the year. The continent just aint accessable by boat for 6-8 months at a time. When the ice is clear, there's the extremely harsh and windy environment around Antarctica. From about 45 - 60 degrees south there's no land to block or slow down the prevailing westerlies, which scream around the continent, especially during Winter. The wind and ice would make it nearly impossible to drill off the continental shelf.

Anyone drilling for oil on/in the continent would either have to work over half the year largely isolated (slowly watching the oil slush accumulate) or work for just the few months out of the year when the oil could be shipped off the continent.

Add in the political situation and I doubt we're going to be seeing any oil from Antarctica.

Eric


{touch up for readability; EE}
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