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General Motors cancels healthcare
Re: GM cancels healthcare
by anthem » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 13:10:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', '6')4 too much for wifes health? But you wont say a word when the plumber hands you a bill? Or your when your mechanic helps you from keeping your hands greasy? The nurse that you paid for was not the tech that asked her if she needed anything. The nurse was the one who made damn sure your wife was well and safe. Not to mention the other nurses that made damn sure your baby was safe......and when I say safe, I mean from the moment the tired(sometimes), young, (sometimes) physician wrote a stupid order that 10 people could not read much less interpret and made damn sure the right med was given at the right time in the right amount........I could go on but I will spare the others.......64 is squat for the education and sacrifice for being a nurse. Done.
I said the hospital charged us $64 for the nurse (not a "tech") to stick her head in the door, not for any real service she provided. We also paid $805 a day for the room. Plus $272 for my wife to lie in another room for an hour (recovery). Plus extremely inflated prices for single tablets of pain killers. $8.50 for a single morphine tablet! Give me a break. I could go on and on. I would love for nurses to get paid what they are worth, but gouging people for minimal service is theft, plain and simple. You might be right that the $64 is keeping the nurse on "standby" lest something horrible happen to my wife and/or daughter, but I believe those costs are factored into the boarding fee. The $64 was for a specific service supposedly provided by the hospital and its staff. That service was imaginary. Period. I was there; you were not.
Whoso would be a man must be a non-conformist.
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anthem - Peat
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Re: GM cancels healthcare
by smallpoxgirl » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 13:24:38
Hospitals are VERY expensive things to run. A small part of it is profiteering by for profit hospitals and by pseudo non-profits. Most of it though, is technology and infrastructure. CAT scanners, high tech operating suites, cardiac monitors, these things are all really expensive, and if you want that service it's going to cost you a lot of money. Nurses don't make great money, but they go to a lot of schooling and they get paid for it. These are not the days when a "nurse" was some 18 year old girl that walked in off the street and put on a funny hat. They mostly have four year degrees. It's tough training. Microbiology, anatomy, physiology. I mean Christ, a CPA spends the same length of time in school that a nurse does. My CPA charges $150 per hour.
If you want to find a cheaper paradigm for health, and I think we desperately need to do that, then you need to think about what are your expectations from the medical system. What do those expectations cost and are those expectations realistic. The truth is that most of the expensive high tech stuff in a hospital doesn't really affect your longevity or quality of life that much. If we want affordable healthcare, we need to start thinking about what is the minimum set of health services that really provide good benefit for the cost and then we need to accept that those other things aren't cost effective and need to be set aside.
If you want to find a cheaper paradigm for health, and I think we desperately need to do that, then you need to think about what are your expectations from the medical system. What do those expectations cost and are those expectations realistic. The truth is that most of the expensive high tech stuff in a hospital doesn't really affect your longevity or quality of life that much. If we want affordable healthcare, we need to start thinking about what is the minimum set of health services that really provide good benefit for the cost and then we need to accept that those other things aren't cost effective and need to be set aside.
"We were standing on the edges
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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smallpoxgirl - Expert
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Re: GM cancels healthcare
by emeraldg40 » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 13:41:56
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anthem', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', '6')4 too much for wifes health? But you wont say a word when the plumber hands you a bill? Or your when your mechanic helps you from keeping your hands greasy? The nurse that you paid for was not the tech that asked her if she needed anything. The nurse was the one who made damn sure your wife was well and safe. Not to mention the other nurses that made damn sure your baby was safe......and when I say safe, I mean from the moment the tired(sometimes), young, (sometimes) physician wrote a stupid order that 10 people could not read much less interpret and made damn sure the right med was given at the right time in the right amount........I could go on but I will spare the others.......64 is squat for the education and sacrifice for being a nurse. Done.
I said the hospital charged us $64 for the nurse (not a "tech") to stick her head in the door, not for any real service she provided. We also paid $805 a day for the room. Plus $272 for my wife to lie in another room for an hour (recovery). Plus extremely inflated prices for single tablets of pain killers. $8.50 for a single morphine tablet! Give me a break. I could go on and on. I would love for nurses to get paid what they are worth, but gouging people for minimal service is theft, plain and simple. You might be right that the $64 is keeping the nurse on "standby" lest something horrible happen to my wife and/or daughter, but I believe those costs are factored into the boarding fee. The $64 was for a specific service supposedly provided by the hospital and its staff. That service was imaginary. Period. I was there; you were not.
I understand. Did you protest the bill? I would. I would get prices for another hospital for comparison. The 64 they chose to charge is a very abitrary number btw. The reality is this.....Nurses are held responsible in a court of law for the care you receive. Now, how much is that worth? Theres not anywhere else in my life that Im responsible to another human, but if I were to duck my head in the door, throw the dice and gamble that your ok, Im held to that decision in a court of law. I personally would not do that btw. The charge although not clearly defined is for nursing care.....RNs and LVNs and patient care techs. 8.50 for pain relief....some people spend that for a latte. You see it is perception....I perceive that 4 bucks is alot for a gallon of gas.....but I pay it if I need it. I hear midwifes are the way to go now adays.....
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emeraldg40 - Lignite
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Re: GM cancels healthcare
by veliger » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 13:46:49
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlosFerreira', '
')I understand what you mean. I just don't think these people should be left with no healthcare to cover them.
Most will be older, and therefore difficult to endure in healthcare insurance companies. The state doesn't provide.
')I understand what you mean. I just don't think these people should be left with no healthcare to cover them.
Most will be older, and therefore difficult to endure in healthcare insurance companies. The state doesn't provide.
Well, actually in the USA we do provide medicare and medicaid for those of retirement age. So most of them should be ok. It'll just cost them a bit more, that's all.
Not the end of the world. Peak oil is the end of the world.
No, ALL of them will be OK. GM only ended this benefit for those 65 and over. In the US, Medicare guarantees health care to all legal residents over 65, with no exceptions. Those too poor to afford the very modest premiums and co-pay of Medicare are eligible for Medicaid, which is essentially free.
Listening to some of these retirees act like they are going to have trouble feeding themselves is galling. The folks affected by this had some of the best compensation packages in the history of civilization. Now they are losing a few of their outrageously generous benefits, when they are no long producing anything of value for their employer, and they whine like entitled union members. I thought these were salaried employees. What these whining retirees don’t seem to realize is just how big their benefit cuts will be if GM ever restructures under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. It’s amazing that they blame the problem entirely on GM management. While there is plenty of blame to go around, I believe bulk of the blame lies with US politicians who have allowed unrestricted, sometimes predatory access to US markets, while doing nothing to require reciprocal unfettered access to our trading
“Partners” markets.
I'm generally very conservative economically, but it's obvious the US needs a Canadian style single payer universal health care system. The simplest approach would be to extend Medicare and Medicaid to all Americans.
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veliger - Peat
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