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THE U.S. Energy Policy 2004-2008 Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: [Energy Policy] Planning For the Peak

Postby Graeme » Fri 27 Jan 2006, 22:16:32

A new world order

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ustaining our early 21st-century global civilisation now depends on shifting to a renewable energy powered, re-use/recycle economy with a diversified transport system. Business as usual - Plan A - cannot take us where we want to go. It is time for Plan B, time to build a new economy.

Among the new sources of energy - wind, solar cells, solar thermal, geothermal, small-scale hydro and biomass - wind is developing fastest, hinting at what the new energy economy will look like.


Living on the Edge

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hese are corporation which don’t want to lose their ability to continue to profit from the human misery caused by nuclear and fossil fuels. The sun, the wind, the tides, and geothermal energy are here in abundance for all the world’s people and they are free. We already have the technology to harness the bounty of the earth. And we know how to store it when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow, by using hydrogen fuel cells. It is clearly not beyond our financial means, as argued by the corporate supporters of toxic fuel industries­particularly when you compare the costs of clean, safe energy to the hundreds of billions of dollars spent annually to subsidize fossil and nuclear fuels. Not to mention the cost of war to protect those poisonous energy sources.

So why don't we have it now? Why don't we have a ten-year crash program to achieve a nuclear, fossil-free, and biomass-free energy transition? Because of the forces that insist on peddling their polluting and proliferating sources of energy--their "cash cows".
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Re: [Energy Policy] Planning For the Peak

Postby Graeme » Sat 28 Jan 2006, 23:50:34

Democrats push for new energy agency

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')enate Minority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a New York Democrat, have introduced legislation that would create a new agency within the U.S. Department of Energy modeled after the Department of Defense's research agency, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. The bill would authorize a total of $9 billion in funding for fiscal years 2007 through 2011 for the new agency to develop research to quickly move "cutting edge" energy-efficiency technologies into the marketplace.
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Re: [Energy Policy] Planning For the Peak

Postby crapattack » Sun 29 Jan 2006, 01:16:19

Graeme
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')enate Minority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, a New York Democrat, have introduced legislation that would create a new agency within the U.S. Department of Energy modeled after the Department of Defense's research agency, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. The bill would authorize a total of $9 billion in funding for fiscal years 2007 through 2011 for the new agency to develop research to quickly move "cutting edge" energy-efficiency technologies into the marketplace.


This is great! Maybe they should just repurpose NASA instead of building a whole new agency.
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Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

Postby Graeme » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 05:57:36

Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f policymakers are going to be enacting measures addressing the jump in gas prices, here are four dos and four don’ts they should follow.

Four Dos

1. States should repeal laws that mandate a minimum gas price.
2. Enact a gas-tax holiday not offset by other tax hikes.
3. Allow expanded refining capacity.
4. Allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.


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Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
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Re: Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

Postby Doly » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 05:59:49

Some guys really, really don't get it.
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Re: Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

Postby green_achers » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 09:11:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f policymakers really want to screw things up a lot more than they already are, here are four dos and four don’ts they should follow.


There. I fixed it for you.
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Re: Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

Postby NeoPeasant » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 11:09:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '[')b]Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f policymakers are going to be enacting measures addressing the jump in gas prices, here are four dos and four don’ts they should follow.

Four Dos

1. States should repeal laws that mandate a minimum gas price.
2. Enact a gas-tax holiday not offset by other tax hikes.
3. Allow expanded refining capacity.
4. Allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.


humaneventsonline


This is from a website that makes the equally outrageous claim that Ann Coulter's latest book is a $27.95 value.
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
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Re: Dos and Don'ts on Energy Policy

Postby mrobert » Mon 03 Jul 2006, 18:45:43

Quote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Some day it will no longer be economically worthwhile to base much of our economy on oil. As that day approaches, free markets will find alternate sources of energy.


How could WE be that stupid not to think of this?
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Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

Postby Graeme » Mon 29 Jan 2007, 03:20:44

Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')resident Bush set broad goals last week for the adoption of alternative energy. Hoping to take on the role of filling in the details is an unlikely group: Silicon Valley’s technology investors.

These venture capitalists, backers of giants like Google and Genentech, have traditionally been free-market advocates, favoring ideas and innovation over government intervention. Now they are heading to Washington on a crusade to influence energy policy because they have a big stake in the outcome.


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Re: Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

Postby flip » Mon 29 Jan 2007, 09:43:45

Yeah!
After following the link, I saw a guy in front of an huge SUV claiming to support a change in energy policy, that clearly has to be a joke, or ? [smilie=bduh.gif]
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Re: Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

Postby NeoPeasant » Mon 29 Jan 2007, 11:53:13

Many fortunes will be made (and lost) as we race down the dead-end path of trying to power our current way of life with alternative energies and biofuels. It may become the new speculative bubble that replaces dot.com and real estate.

I'm not against alternative energy sources, but they will never be up to the task of satisfying our current energy demands. They may be adequate to help us function at the dramatically reduced energy consumption rate that will be imposed on us by the decline of fossil fuels.
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
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Re: Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

Postby Leanan » Mon 29 Jan 2007, 11:54:41

That's Vinod Khosla. He thinks we can just switch to ethanol, and continue the happy motoring lifestyle.

IMO, he's typical of the Silicon Valley type. They think Moore's Law applies to everything, and we'll see the kind of rapid advances in ethanol, etc., that we saw in computer chips.
"The problems of today will not be solved by the same thinking that produced the problems in the first place." - Albert Einstein
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Re: Tech Barons Take on New Project: Energy Policy

Postby neocone » Mon 29 Jan 2007, 15:09:32

Tech barons will soon buy a privatized NASA in order to get their asses to a colony on Mars away from the hell the Earth will become... but equality minded scientists will tell them "screw you!!!".

Ever saw "When world collide?", from the 1950s? At the end the rich bastard is kicked out from the spaceship raft...
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An Energy Policy that Makes Cents (and Sense)

Postby Graeme » Fri 04 Apr 2008, 05:42:13

An Energy Policy that Makes Cents (and Sense)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ince the US has no real energy policy today, the time constraints enforced by peak oil will require our new energy policy to be correct the first time around. I suspect we will not get a second chance. Below is an outline of a comprehensive energy policy that tackles the challenges of peak oil head-on. It will require sacrifice and present many challenges to the people of our nation. We must be up to the task.

The first step in an energy policy that addresses peak oil is to start acknowledging the problem at the highest levels of government. No difficult problem can expect to be solved until it is first acknowledged. We need to make the words "peak oil" as prevalent on the lips of Americans as is "Britney Spears" or "Hannah Montana". Every citizen needs to know exactly what is at stake here.

Although the policies listed below are, for the most part Federal initiatives, it should be understood that state and local governments, including the association of governors, should be major role-players. They are best able to address issues like mass transit in their cities, power generation and transportation issues which are unique within their boundaries, and other similar aspects of an overall energy policy which are best dealt with at the state and local levels.

Since transportation is the US's largest use of imported oil (gasoline), we need to immediately increase tax incentives for highly fuel efficient vehicles. At the same time, we need to place *very* large penalty taxes on purchases of low mileage SUVs such as the Hummer. Yes, Americans are free to drive what they like, but if they chose to buy a vehicle that threatens America's economic prosperity and security they must be made to pay through the nose. The tax revenue from the sale of these idiotic vehicles will directly fund the the tax rebates for fuel efficient vehicles. That way, if your neighbor drives a Hummer, you can thank him for helping to pay for your Prius.

We need higher fuel economy CAFE standards passed sooner rather than later. The recent legislation Congress passed on CAFE standards won't be fully implemented until 2021(!). Are you kidding me? The game will be over by then if we don't take more intelligent and immediate action. We cannot continue to let the US automobile lobby draft legislation governing mpg standards.

American automobile manufacturers must receive government incentives to design and manufacture alternatives to the gasoline powered internal combustion engine. The assistance received will depend on the quality and timeliness of delivery of said vehicle, be it an electric, natural gas, or hydrogen powered solution. The goal should be for the vehicle to have a range of at least 300 miles per fueling and be manufacturable by 2012.

Such an alternative vehicle solution will likely be powered by electricity. We therefore need a massive government led initiative to build out our non-oil and gas based electrical power sources and to update our electrical grid infrastructure. We need to free up natural gas for transportation and heating.

Power sources that should be financially and otherwise encouraged by the government are nuclear, wind, and solar. We will need massive amounts of electricity from these sources, and we need to begin right away. Nuclear plants require long lead times to license and build and we should have started yesterday.

Ethanol is a losing proposition in my opinion. It has probably saved some oil, albeit at what cost? The price of grains have skyrocketed causing real inflation at the grocery store for everything from bread to beef and chicken. Also, with the affects of global warming, the water requirements of ethanol will become a real issue. Government should stop subsidizing ethanol and instead put these subsidies on wind and solar energy as well as building out the electrical grid. Besides, ethanol actually encourages further use of gasoline and in some ways gives American's the impression that it is the "answer" to higher gasoline prices. It is not.

The US has huge coal reserves, but coal is dirty. We need more research done in the area of coal-to-liquids and coal gasification so that we can harness the energy in coal without destroying our environment. I don't know if that is possible, but surely we need to find out. Soon.

The Federal government, the state of Alaska, and Canada, need to get off their collective duffs and commit to building a much needed, and long overdue, natural gas pipeline from the gas fields of Alaska and Canada to the lower-48. This is such a common sense deal I get ill everytime I realize it is STILL not a work-in-progress.

Conservation guidelines should be issued by the government and local utility providers. I cringe when I see huge displays of Christmas lights which burn all night long. It makes me realize how clueless most Americans are and what a long way we have to go. We should be penalizing such indiscriminate use of power.

"Alternative fuels" should be encouraged but only after careful study of all relevant data. Ethanol is an example where short-sightedness, simple analysis, conclusions, and "bandwagon" jumping can end up with failed policy initiatives which are harmful to the overall objectives of a sound energy policy. (I don't consider wind and solar to be "alternative" energy sources. Wind is economically viable today, and solar be shortly).

Lastly, as a country, we really need to evaluate our policy of not drilling for oil off the coasts of California and Florida as well as the existing drilling limitations in Alaska and elsewhere.


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Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby BobWise32952 » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 16:44:18

I will be participating in a discussion Tuesday evening to provide input for the Democratic party platform - one of thousands being held around the U.S. I'd like to propose a "plank" on energy policy. A draft of my idea is given below. I'd appreciate any suggestions or comments, pro or con.
- Bob Wise

Proposed Platform Plank on Energy Policy

Think in terms of Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI)
• Kcal out/Kcal in of a primary source must be >> 1:1
- Preferably >4:1
- Includes full life cycle energy cost of machinery, buildings etc.
• Processes that don’t show a net gain in dollars probably don’t return a positive EROI
• Big EROEIs are claimed for new tech - Don’t prejudge, pro- or con-
• Conservation measures may return < 1:1
- Trade materials, labor for lower fuel use

Don’t Subsidize Primary Energy Sources
• Must pay off in EROEI, kcal/kcal, similar to $/$
- Developers will make a profit
- Example: Boone Pickens Wind Power Plan
• Phase out ethanol subsidy and tariff
• Phase out subsidies and tax breaks to oil & gas companies
• Subsidize research on primary sources

Subsidize Selected Conservation Measures (EROEI may be < 1)
• Choose subsidies for greatest fuel savings per tax dollar
- Fund startup/installation costs, research
- Simpler, cheaper is better
• Home water- and space heating systems
• Public transportation (use existing roads and rails)
• Railroads
• Coastal shipping
• Productive uses of Internet (Telecommuting)

Strive for Reduced Fossil Fuel Dependence, NOT Energy Independence
• Use Foreign Fuels First
• As long as there is a world market in relatively cheap energy, we should be buyers
• Save untapped domestic oil and gas for future generations

Discourage Non-Productive Uses of Fuel
• Tax recreational boat & aviation gas use
• Tax excessive home fuel and electric use
- Graduated scale above average range of use
• Best use of fuel is adding value in production of goods
- Reduce need for imported goods
- Export, reducing trade imbalance

Encourage and Subsidize Public Education on Energy
• Systems ecology
• Ecological economics
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Re: Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby darwinsdog » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 16:54:09

Forget EROEI analysis. You never get more energy returned than invested. That nasty old 2nd Law again. So in order for EROEI analysis to be "meaningful" you must exclude certain energy investments or inputs. Which inputs to exclude is an arbitrary decision. Being arbitrary, people disagree about which ones to exclude. Hence, the entire process is a waste of time. Being a waste of time doesn't prevent geeks enamored with Excel from posting colorful graphs, unfortunately.
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Re: Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby BobWise32952 » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 18:03:01

Note to Darwin's Dog: Systems ecologists have been modeling the energy flows of ecosystems for some 40 years now, using a simulation language that enforces compliance with the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics. I've followed some of their writings, and have never encountered the conclusion you are drawing from the 2nd law.
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Re: Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby darwinsdog » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 18:19:31

So you include as an input the solar energy that went into the generation of fossil fuels 200 mys ago? The energy of the supernovae explosions that fused fissile isotopes? The opportunity costs accruing from the decision to develop one energy source over another? All the externalized environmental & social costs of energy production & utilization, when you can't even identify them all? I guess you must, since you say so. And you still get EROEI ratios approaching unity? WoW !!
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Re: Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 18:22:52

It would be great if the dem party platform adopted your proposed plank supporting ending the poorly thought out federal corn ethanol subsidy. Unfortunately, back in the real world, the dems in congress just passed a bill that DOUBLED the existing ethanol subsidy program (and Obama himself supported the increase in the ethanol subsidy---both when campaigning in Iowa and in his Senate vote). :roll:
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Re: Energy Policy Proposal for Dem Platform

Postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 18 Jul 2008, 18:28:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 't')he dems in congress just passed a bill that DOUBLED the existing ethanol subsidy program
Right, the politicians are morons. Forget about it, Bob.
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