[hope_full]

I'm a lousy debater and I'm about to give up on trying to talk to family members and loved ones.

This weekend, a family member was talking about his $600,000 home for sale in a MD/DC suburb - which has sat on the market for more than two years. I asked, "Is it near a downtown area or urban core, because those homes are selling better than suburban homes."

I was told, "No, it's a half hour away from the downtown and an hour from DC."

I said, "Well, you may want to slash the price because suburban homes - the ones that require long commutes into work - are the ones showing the most precipitous drop in value and it appears it's only going to get worse. You might want to sell and get out NOW, while the getting's good."

This conversation arose because this person has a great NEED to sell this house immediately, due to financial woes. And, their house is paid-in-full. No debt, but the taxes are horrific. And it sits vacant. Not one, but all THREE people in our gathering said, "Someone who can pay $600,000 for a home isn't worried about a little extra expense for gas and commuting."

I said, "It's not just the price of gas now, but the fact it's going to keep going up and up."

They responded by saying, "That's not a problem for someone who has $600K to plunk down on a house."

Yeesh.

Next, I was talking to a family member about the very significant problems facing our American economy; an economy that's grown accustomed to cheap oil and gas. I said that the world might look very different in 10 years.

She said, "You know, we all expected TSTHTF in the 1970s and you know what? Nothing happened despite all the dire predictions and worry and fear. We're all still here. This is just more of the same. If it didn't happen in the 70s, it's sure as heck not going to happen now. We're in much better shape now."

So, I am spent. I run into brick wall after brick wall trying to talk to people I love. I feel like it's a waste of energy. Mind you, I come from a family of super-smart people, most of whom are mired in Academia (Academia nuts, as I lovingly call them). And most of whom think that I'm an overly emotional, sensitive-soul, artistic type, albeit a lovable overly emotional, sensitive-soul artistic type.

Part of me feels duty-bound to warn others and open their eyes. Yet heretofore, only my two grown children agree with me and believe that the world is about to undergo a radical change.

It's so frustrating. I'd be grateful to hear how others have dealt with recalcitrant family members and friends. Is it time to just shut up and stop talking?

I'm a neophyte, having jumped into this PO pond a scant 30 days ago, and I feel like I'm watching the whole ball of yarn slowly unravel and that it'd be immoral not to share what I know with those whom I love.

[DomusAlbion]

Prepare for you and your immediate family.

Let the world and coming events teach others.

And always remember:

It could be that the purpose of their lives is only to serve as a warning to others.

[Fredrik]

Having to face knee-jerk disbelief and ridicule from family & friends while trying to cope with future predicaments is like adding insult to injury. I can sympathize with your situation.

My other half occasionally expresses her doubts about my mental health (less and less jokingly), and she's frustrated about my "crazy" predictions and ideas how to prepare. Thankfully she's stil going along though. I've got to make a simple, factual, convincing Peak Oil 101 presentation for her (and friends, and relatives)... unless the energy supply just collapses before that and I've got to explain why I didn't warn everyone of what I saw coming.

[Cashmere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OP', 'M')ind you, I come from a family of super-smart people

[BigTex]

Don't waste your time trying to bend others' minds to your way of thinking.

They will wake up from their dreams soon enough.

Play your game, let them play theirs.

[Cog]

I have a similar situation but with my wife and one daughter. They think that father is a little nuts when I talk about long-term survivability. I do not preach it to them on a daily basis. I just do what is necessary to enhance our survival.

The wife for instance has said the following in the last month since I have become PO aware(Been doing survival prepping for a year before I became PO aware).:

"The oil companies are gouging us"
"They(government) will find a way to solve this"
"We need to drill more"

So what do I do with all this mis-information from the woman I married 28 years ago?

1) I tear up my suburban back-yard to plant the biggest garden that I can
2) I talk to my father about inheriting his 40 acre farm to me in lieu of inheriting stocks which will soon be worth nothing.
3) I buy wheat, rice, and beans on a weekly basis to give me a cushion.
4) I smile when my wife makes these cornucopian type statements and give her a hug.

Soon enough she will understand the full impact of PO and I'll never say I told you so. She will know though.

[Arsenal]

Great way to prep Cog and stay married. My wife does the same thing which is nice when prepping. She supports all my efforts even though she does not completely believe anything is going to change. It's kinda nice to use her as a PO lighting rod sometimes when I get esp doomerish. She keeps me grounded and on prepping track instead of freaking out.

Arsenal

[dinopello]

Cog has the right attitude. Why would you ever give up on someone you love ? It's been quite interesting to me to see my friend's perpective change over time as I have been working on them over the years. Still there are holdouts. But I don't give up, but I also don't harp on it and in the end it's up to each of us how we run our lives.

[DomusAlbion]

Cog, you are doing what is right. Don't worry about trying to convince her.

Just walk the walk.

In the future she and your child will look upon you in wonder and awe and be most grateful.


I was lucky. I have a very intelligent and well educated wife. All I had to do is introduce the idea and a few facts. Her own abilities took over from there and now she's a bigger doomer than I.

[taizee]

I have discovered, after a few weeks visiting these boards, that my husband is a cornucopian. He believes that "they" will discover all sorts of new amazing inventions to keep it all going. He thinks I'm going a little crazy and He's right in a way, I tend to be obsessive about things, but it means I really dig into a problem until I find answers. Also, he is an academic and a little engrossed in that world, believing all can be solved by reading Dickens or Joyce. In a way he is right that many the lessons of the past can be found in literature and in many ways so much of our problems are caused by misunderstandings and inability to see other perspectives and we don't really get this from watching TV.

We should always worry when the books start getting burned, or in the case now in many universities, the humanities have been regulated in favor of business and economics. Many a business major could do with reading Plato.

I digress

[coyote]

It took me a year and a half. I was as gentle and patient as I could be, and I didn't allow my doomerism to dominate our relationship (though occasionally of course I slipped after getting depressed from reading the news). And I am so glad, my girl is now on board and understands the situation quite well - even without having done all the research I have. She began not even knowing that oil was a finite resource, and clearly not enjoying the topic when I brought it up... and now she sounds like an expert, and is all right with the preps, willing to relocate away from an area she loves (and understands why), and very enthusiastic about the gardening (we would enjoy doing that in any case). She's my hero.

If you care about someone, don't just dump them on the curb because they don't immediately get it. A little patience can turn the trick. This is a tough subject for most. It doesn't have much to do with intelligence IMO, it has everything to do with being emotionally able to give up lifelong cherished beliefs. I recognize that at some point, for extended family, you may have to cut them loose from your plans eventually if they're just refusing to get it. But the best way to make it through the next couple of decades is to surround yourself with a family, a community, of like-minded individuals. It isn't time to give up yet.

Soon, maybe.

[Zel]

I've been gently nudging my father to put some of his investments into gold and silver and I occasionally send him an article by someone he is familiar with like Warren Buffet. I did explain to him the futility of relying on ANWAR and oil sands. I was amazed that he listened. My sister's family are oil people and think everything is fine.

I'm the flaky artist in a family of teachers and MBAs, so they are not inclined to listen to me. I will keep nudging when appropriate and, like Cog, continue tearing up my suburban backyard.

[CarlinsDarlin]

Patience, hopefull. That's about the best you can do. Most of us who've been PO aware for a few years (some of the forum members for much longer) have had more than our share of the same conversations with people who wouldn't listen. I've personally been called a survivalist nut, had everything I said wiped away with the "they'll figure out something" response, been accused of being obsessive about peak oil (most of these by my husband at the beginning ) ... but you just keep doing what you're doing.

In my case, slowly some of my family members (and my husband) are coming around. Carlin is much like your wife, Cog. He doesn't quite agree with the reasons I do everything, but most of the time he doesn't gripe too much or stand in the way. He lets me do what I'm doing even if he doesn't fully understand why I'm doing it. Lately he's been asking more questions and picking my brain (like why offshore drilling wouldn't help), so I know he's thinking about it, at least.

In the last year or so, my brother is finally on board. It took a while, but he's prepping himself now. He's added a pantry and stocking it. He's constructed a solar hot water heater. His garden is doing great (better than mine which has gone to hell in a handbasket this year because of my having to spend too much time with the goats)... in short, he's got it.

Don't give up hope. Just offer gentle reminders here and there, and keep doing what you're doing to prepare your own family. DomusAlbion has a point. World events, sooner or later, will begin to make an impact on even the most avid holdout. Just the last year's events have made peak oil more mainstream to a lot of people. The awakening will continue.
K

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OP', 'M')ind you, I come from a family of super-smart people

[BigTex]

Zel gets my vote for finest avatar. Very nice. It's VERY hard to get a photo like that. Dolphins jump out of the water like that a lot, but cows very rarely do.

To get a shot of them jumping out of the water at the same time is amazing.

***

Another way of thinking about bringing someone around to your view of the world is to think about the water dripping on the rock. Give it enough time and the rock will wear away.

When you are dripping truth, I think you can use this method in good conscience.

[FoxV]

I'm a lousy debater as well and my best arguments of course only come to me after the debate is over.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'T')hey responded by saying, "That's not a problem for someone who has $600K to plunk down on a house."

[mystiek]

Hopefull, just view yourself as the "watchman on the wall". Not everyone will heed, but you know in your heart that you did what was the best thing to say and do. Look at Noah-he was cackled at by scoffers for quite awhile during his boat building-but one day the rains came and well, we know the rest of the story.

[CherBear1983]

My friends and family make me feel like I'm crazy. I tried to talk to my mom, and I said we should start a garden when I come home from Korea. She laughed at me. She also make the following remarks:
"The States has plenty of oil. They have stockpiles of oil they're not even using." When I pointed out that, if that were true, why are the #1 country in the world for imports? She still didn't believe me, and responded with "It won't happen in my lifetime."
My boyfriend is seriously misinformed, and believes that oil will run out in "500 or 600 years," despite what I've told him. Also, English is not his first language so maybe he can't 100% understand me.
And worst of all is my best friend, because she is so much like me in other ways but she is stubborn about Peak Oil. I've told her everything I've learned about it, and she keeps coming up with excuses not to believe me. She says that the government will take care of it, and we can just switch to solar and wind energy. Of course I try to point out that that's not as easy as one might think, but she just ignores me. She also said "I think the government will know about this at least 10 years before it happens." I was flabbergasted, having told her that Peak Oil has been known about for a very long time. My other close friend is talking about buying a car when we go back to Canada, and they both are constantly buying unnecessary things because they are "cute," like umbrellas and lunchboxes from Japan. They refuse to believe that their lives will ever change. I am so frustrated. I find it hard to spend time with them lately because all they want to talk about is shopping and guys, and I want to talk about what is happening in the world, or going to happen. I was perfectly happy to be that way before, but now that I know I can't go back. Sometimes I wish I didn't know.

[Kfish]

There are many, many ways to "sell" preparations for Peak Oil. Going "OMG ZOMBIE HORDES!!" is probably one of the least effective.

For example, you could introduce a food garden like this:
"Inflation's getting higher, maybe we should grow our own"
"I'm worried about the pesticides they put on vegetables"
"We could reduce our carbon footprint and save money at the same time"

Stockpiling:
"You know, if we bought in bulk it'd be cheaper and we wouldn't have to go shopping as often"

Cycling/reducing car use:
"Petrol's getting expensive"
"We need more exercise anyway"
"Let's reduce our greenhouse gas emissions"

Introducing the concept of peak oil gently can be an issue, but I've had success starting with "well, oil's a finite resource anyway, it's got to run out sometime" and work from there.

[mystiek]

Kfish has a good point as far as approach, sometime you have to enter from their world view. Its almost what I have to do with my kids-the oldest being 11 years old. He sees us putting food up, gardening, visiting pick your own farms, canning, trying to use the scooter more than our diesel F350 pickup truck and kids are not dumb they see what you are doing and ask questions why we are doing things-they need to learn and understand, but approached at a level they can comprehend. I will admit, the hardest thing I had to explain to my kids (and my husband) was my homemade Faraday boxes...