[JJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's going to require a new paradigm in American health care though. It's going to require an earnest push to abandon high-tech medicine and rediscover affordable medicine. It's also going to require, I think, that we follow Shakespear's advice vis-a-via malpractice lawyers. The technophilic health care model that the US, and to a lesser extent Europe have been pursuing, really needs to come to an end, and this may be the kind of thing that finally motivates us to make it happen.

[emeraldg40]

I can only speak for the DFW area. If you dont have a job, you

go to the county hospital,access the Emergency room and if you

need surgery you will get it. I dont have an opinion on this, but

that would be your best course of action. You may very well have

to go this route if you are employed by a small company that has

no benefits. There is an entire industry in hospitals of how they will

be reimbursed. If you have seen Sicko by M Moore you already

know, that just because a person has "coverage" does not mean it

will in fact be covered. Another industry of people denying claims.

So what to do? Read stories of what families in America with sick

and disabled children have had to endure during the "good" times

and you will have an idea of what is coming our way. It boils down

to this..............Find the best state and move there.

Good luck with the nurse course. I hung up my halo long ago and

jumped ship.......so...if the nurse thing dosnt work out for you

consider pharmacy tech certification before it becomes a degree...

The view from the 26th floor of the Palms in Vegas can be quite nice

once a year..........and nurses are not invited lol Peace



How does someone pay for an operation if they don't have health insurance cause they have no job? Please explain where this money comes from... We'd export hospital jobs too if we could (wait... i did just read how fat Americans are flying to India to have knee surgeries and insurance companies are starting to cover it....). Higher energy prices cause people to spend more on that and less on everything else. Most people would probably choose a tank of gasoline over paying their premium.

"Nightline" last week had a part on about Haitian children who are pretty much slaves. They asked this little girl what "goals" she had in life, what she would like to do/become...

She said she wanted to drive a car...

Registered Nurse is probably the best job going right now. I should get my ass back in class and get through the program. I've worked in a nursing home for a few years so i kind of know how it works. My sister works in insurance billing (for over 15 years) at the local hospital (part of Mayo) and i've got an idea how that works too. I know a lot of stuff gets written off and a lot of people fail to pay their bills.

Self medication, here we come.[/quote]

[emeraldg40]

So which way to go? The republicans want a free market....so big pharma says "Far out man. That bottle of pills will cost you 100.00". Or, the Canadian way........."Hey big pharma, if you want in our country.......we will tell you what we are willing to pay you, and no more than that.........take it or leave it." The choice is yours. But dont go thinking every country in the world is paying those prices. Only in America........... (or Zimbabwae)




$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'A')ll this means LESS MONEY FOR BIG HOSPITALS? No wonder why they want universal health care, they want big government to pick up the tab when the masses our unemployed.

[smallpoxgirl]

It's easy to blame insurance companies, and certainly they are vultures. The truth though is that the healthcare crisis really comes down to patients and families who have an unrealistic relationship with death and insist on outrageously expensive interventions to try to avoid it. A simple cerebral aneurysm repair is peanuts anymore. There's things ten times that expensive we can throw at patients. Problem is, that very few of us can afford a half million for medical expenses, even when you amortize it out over several decades. Because modern medicine has sold itself as being the source of immortality, lawyers hold us to it. If there's any way we could have spent more money on a patient, even for trivial benefits, you can bet there's a lawyer salivating to litigate it.

One of the biggest sources of malpractice claims for radiologists is missing a breast cancer on a mammogram. To combat this, the local radiology group in the town where I work in Montana got themselves a fancy computer assisted mammogram machine. Problem is that the new fancy mammograms now cost twice as much and nobody can afford to get a mammogram.

I think we really have to look at healthcare in terms of what can we really reasonably afford, and what standard of healthcare can we achieve with that. The great news is that it may actually not result in a reduction in our longevity or quality of life. Canadians spend a small fraction of what we do on healthcare and they live 2 years longer on average. The third leading cause of death in the US is complications from medical care.

One of the easiest things that could be done in the US to rapidly decrease the cost of healthcare would be to prohibit all advertising by pharmaceutical companies. Advertising accounts for well over a third of all medication costs in the US and it frequently leads to patients demanding a medication that they don't need or demanding a medication which is not the best choice for their condition. Likewise, prohibiting sample medications and requiring a simplified process for patient assistance programs would be a huge improvement to patient care.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'E')merald?

How does someone pay for an operation if they don't have health insurance cause they have no job? Please explain where this money comes from... We'd export hospital jobs too if we could (wait... i did just read how fat Americans are flying to India to have knee surgeries and insurance companies are starting to cover it....). Higher energy prices cause people to spend more on that and less on everything else. Most people would probably choose a tank of gasoline over paying their premium.

[Farknight]

The way I see it is very simple... as GM sees little problem with canceling retiree health care than I suggest they move up the corporate ladder and save even more shareholder funds. CEO Rick Wagoner should also have his health coverage terminated when he leaves GM as well as further reductions to his multi-million dollar salary. Yes, I know he has already "endured" a 50% pay cut and lost some of the millions but he still has many millions coming in. He probably had to downgrade from a 75 to a 55 footer yacht.

With the shape GM is in these days and under his "watch" at the helm, I wonder how fair it really is to scrap the insurance for all the older workers who actually "made" products for GM while still throwing millions to the CEO. It is kind of like giving Captain Edward J. Smith a commendation for sinking the unsinkable. At least he had the courage to go down with the ship.

Perhaps lower CEO salary to a mere million (oh how can they live on that?) and scrap the health care as well. Then the pain would be spread a bit more fairly and some significant costs cut.

[AlexdeLarge]

"We have social security, that's not going away." I would not bet on that one! LOL

They killed the goose that laid the golden egg. What has happened to GM is a microchasim for the whole country? The unions demanded more and more benefits for less production. Ineffective management ,with no foresight, took the easy road and caved in to the unions. Management figured they would put off dealing with financial obligations until some future date when someone else would have to deal with it. Employees did not care as long as "I got mine."

Americans are demanding more and more services. Free health care, free college, retirement, etc etc. as long as someone else pays for it. Washington and its politicians have been caving in to the demands of the public. Now our government is bloated and broke. It is ineffective and has not planned for the future. I have a feeling that our goose may get cooked too!

One of the problems with a democracy is you get the government you deserve. Well, using the venacular of BHO's spirtual advisor, "the chickens have come home to roost." And we are all to blame.

[emeraldg40]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')t's easy to blame insurance companies, and certainly they are vultures. The truth though is that the healthcare crisis really comes down to patients and families who have an unrealistic relationship with death and insist on outrageously expensive interventions to try to avoid it. A simple cerebral aneurysm repair is peanuts anymore. There's things ten times that expensive we can throw at patients. Problem is, that very few of us can afford a half million for medical expenses, even when you amortize it out over several decades. Because modern medicine has sold itself as being the source of immortality, lawyers hold us to it. If there's any way we could have spent more money on a patient, even for trivial benefits, you can bet there's a lawyer salivating to litigate it.

One of the biggest sources of malpractice claims for radiologists is missing a breast cancer on a mammogram. To combat this, the local radiology group in the town where I work in Montana got themselves a fancy computer assisted mammogram machine. Problem is that the new fancy mammograms now cost twice as much and nobody can afford to get a mammogram.

I think we really have to look at healthcare in terms of what can we really reasonably afford, and what standard of healthcare can we achieve with that. The great news is that it may actually not result in a reduction in our longevity or quality of life. Canadians spend a small fraction of what we do on healthcare and they live 2 years longer on average. The third leading cause of death in the US is complications from medical care.

One of the easiest things that could be done in the US to rapidly decrease the cost of healthcare would be to prohibit all advertising by pharmaceutical companies. Advertising accounts for well over a third of all medication costs in the US and it frequently leads to patients demanding a medication that they don't need or demanding a medication which is not the best choice for their condition. Likewise, prohibiting sample medications and requiring a simplified process for patient assistance programs would be a huge improvement to patient care.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', ' ')Nothing wrong with samples.....gets them through till the pharmacy opens or gets the new drug in.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')t's easy to blame insurance companies, and certainly they are vultures. The truth though is that the healthcare crisis really comes down to patients and families who have an unrealistic relationship with death and insist on outrageously expensive interventions to try to avoid it.

[emeraldg40]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', ' ')Nothing wrong with samples.....gets them through till the pharmacy opens or gets the new drug in.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', 'A')s far as hospital stays, the case Im referring to was my Canadian mother in law, cellulitis , in there for 10 days on cefalozin....although I cant know for sure, I was thinking that if she would have been in US, maybe a stronger drug po after 3 days IV in hospital. Then no bill after 10 days hospital...very different. So that being said, keeping the Hibiclins handy lol

[emeraldg40]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')t's easy to blame insurance companies, and certainly they are vultures. The truth though is that the healthcare crisis really comes down to patients and families who have an unrealistic relationship with death and insist on outrageously expensive interventions to try to avoid it.

[jbrovont]

Well, there's also a disconnect between "health" and "care" in the United States. It might be more accurate to call it "health profit." Many drugs and high tech treatments have alternative lower cost treatments, that aren't as profitable and therefore are either not explored fully, or not endorsed by the FDA.

For instance, cilantro contains one of the most powerful anti-biotics known to humans that is also very difficult for bacteria to develop a resistance to because of the nature of it's action. Is it in production? No - it is a natural compound and therefore cannot be patented. Do a search on dodecenal if you're interested.

Another example: butylated hydroxy-toluene. Used as a food preservative, it's been found to have a variety of health related side effects, some very negative including encouraging of some forms of cancers. Despite this, it remains on the FDA's list of approved food addatives.

It also has been shown to have a significant affect at destroying lipid encased viruses, HIV, HSV, Ebola, and common flu to name a few. You might be surprised that although several peer reviewed research studies have confirmed this, it is not approved for treatment of these types of infections. Why? It might be because the patent on it's production has expired and everyone and their grandma can make it for pennies, where as other more expensive drugs are controlled and very profitable.

Food for thought.

[idiom]

Health Insurance is the stupidest idea ever. The one place you should not have aggressive profit seeking is the only place you do.

Nasa and the health system should trade places. Hospitals should be government funded and Nasa should be making billions in profits.

[Rogozhin]

I went to the emergency room eight months ago (no health insurance at the time). I almost fainted, but I couldn't move without heavy effort and some help.

I walked into the ER, had a BP, ekg, gl, and x-ray of my chest completed by three nurses. Then the doctor on call spent 2 minutes to examine the chart (I don't have any other records, so this was all he was looking at) and felt my pulse.

I was charged $2239.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rogozhin', 'I') went to the emergency room eight months ago (no health insurance at the time). I almost fainted, but I couldn't move without heavy effort and some help.

I walked into the ER, had a BP, ekg, gl, and x-ray of my chest completed by three nurses. Then the doctor on call spent 2 minutes to examine the chart (I don't have any other records, so this was all he was looking at) and felt my pulse.

I was charged $2239.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')In a post PO world our grand children's grandchildren won't be complaining about health insurance because nobody is going to have it.
They'll simply be happy to have 3 meals a day and perhaps indoor plumbing.

[emeraldg40]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rogozhin', 'I') went to the emergency room eight months ago (no health insurance at the time). I almost fainted, but I couldn't move without heavy effort and some help.

I walked into the ER, had a BP, ekg, gl, and x-ray of my chest completed by three nurses. Then the doctor on call spent 2 minutes to examine the chart (I don't have any other records, so this was all he was looking at) and felt my pulse.

I was charged $2239.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emeraldg40', 'W')hats your point? The doctor was your only ally at that time. He patiently waited for your results to come in......now let me ask you this......would you have been willing to pay more if he had spent more time with you? Do you realize that the bill would have been the same had he found an issue with your ekg, x-ray etc...you are paying him for his answer. You chose to go there. Should medical workers just do this for you for free? Cause we have nothing better to do? What do you think a fair price would have been? Did you then invest in your own B/P monitor? Read up on health? Just food for thought.