[MarkJ]

It's too easy to sell scrap metal in some regions since so many salvage yards don't require identification and pay cash. I've seen people pushing shopping carts full of scrap metal onto the scales.

We haven't seen a large increase in thefts, but we've picked up some plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical and water damage work due to copper theft. With all the vacant homes in some cities, I'm surprised thefts aren't much higher.

The nice thing about rising scrap prices is that junk vehicles and scrap metal is being cleaned up in blighted areas. We also have more middlemen willing to pay us top dollar for our scrap tanks, boilers, furnaces, water heaters, copper, ductwork etc. Saves us the time, money, fuel and the risk of flat tires ate the salvage yards.

When homeowners perform plumbing retrofits, the sale of their scrap copper often helps offset the cost of new copper, PEX, CPVC, manifolds, fittings, valves etc.

[Cloud9]

Forget about policing the tracks. Watch the scrap yards. Put the buyer and the seller on the road gang for six months. The thefts will slow to a trickle.

[Heineken]

Criminals can't be stopped, Cloud. They always find a way around obstacles such as you propose.

[darwinsdog]

Electric motors are disappearing off center pivot irrigation units. They're way out in the middle of nowhere & the price of copper is high. Theft is bound to increase as the economy deteriorates due to the inflating price of petroleum. It's just a fact of life. If you want to take it upon yourself to shoot thieves, fine. But thieves often shoot back.

[Cloud9]

Which is easier; watching a million miles of track or watching a few thousand scrap metal dealers?

[Jdelagado]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', 'A')lso, if people are hungry, trains might eventually be derailed regularly and looted for food and other goods.

[misterno]

Amen to that brother

[mlit]

Most of the people involved in metal theft are already on the fringe of society. Meth and other drug addicts are already breaking serious laws, increasing the penalties for metal theft will have little deterence. We'll just end up with more crowded prisons.

[Heineken]

We won't be able to afford too many more prisons; a growing list of state governments are already in deep financial trouble. At some point the law-breaking becomes so pervasive that society can't cope with it in the ways we're used to, or perhaps in any affordable way.

The number of scrap-metal dealers will swell with the supply of scrap metal. You can't police them all. Black markets will flourish.

Vandalism of railroad tracks could also become common (in some cases in reprisal for jailing of important thieves). Those people won't be out to steal the metal, they'll just loosen the rails and lay them aside. We've seen how that works in the movies, and the horrible consequences when the locomotive(s) can't stop in time.

The railroads are a huge potential target for criminals and the disaffected. As railroad infrastructure becomes more important, it will become more of a target.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jdelagado', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hogan', 'A')lso, if people are hungry, trains might eventually be derailed regularly and looted for food and other goods.

[darwinsdog]

There was this cornucopian poster called allen from new orleans over on the oildrum blog, whose silver bullet happened to be fission powered electric trains. He'd become enraged at the notion that starving people would simply derail his pet trains & loot them.

[Heineken]

That gave me a minor belly laugh, Darwin. Good job.

[TommyJefferson]

Yesterday I sold metal at the recycling yard. I got $58 for an old water heater, an old oven, and an old washing machine.

I got $9 for a handfull of copper tubing and an old street sign (aluminum).

They asked for Identification and took down my driver's license number.


A month ago I called the Sheriff's Department on some guys driving their 4x4 truck through the forest next to my house. They were going through there picking up old metal appliances and car parts that had been illegally dumped in those woods.

I didn't like them trespassing on my land, but I was glad to be rid of the junk in the woods because it holds water and provides breeding pools for mosquitos.

I told the Sheriff I did not want to prosecute them.

[alpha480v]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'I')t's too easy to sell scrap metal in some regions since so many salvage yards don't require identification and pay cash. I've seen people pushing shopping carts full of scrap metal onto the scales.

We haven't seen a large increase in thefts, but we've picked up some plumbing, heating, cooling, electrical and water damage work due to copper theft. With all the vacant homes in some cities, I'm surprised thefts aren't much higher.

The nice thing about rising scrap prices is that junk vehicles and scrap metal is being cleaned up in blighted areas. We also have more middlemen willing to pay us top dollar for our scrap tanks, boilers, furnaces, water heaters, copper, ductwork etc. Saves us the time, money, fuel and the risk of flat tires ate the salvage yards.

When homeowners perform plumbing retrofits, the sale of their scrap copper often helps offset the cost of new copper, PEX, CPVC, manifolds, fittings, valves etc.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOldTDiIsStillGoing', 'H')ave you been to Europe? It is almost all electric system even the freight locomotives use the overhead lines in many areas.

Easy target at night when most of the passenger service is idled in Europe except for a few night intercity trains. And the track lines are very open in Europe so access is easy.

[Twilight]

Railway signal cable theft has become more common in the UK, but the residential housing boom has offered much easier pickings. Who knows what the future may bring though. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the battle was a losing one for many years. A lot of industry fell into disrepair and disuse and was dismantled before it could be made more efficient.

[Cloud9]

Suspend due process and start shooting people and I will help blow the rails myself. Lawlessness is not a reason to rip up the Bill of Rights. Having said that, the old chain gangs of the 1930’s were self supporting. Thousands of acres of prison farms fed more than just convicts. Unemployment was a crime. Security consisted of a leg iron and a length of chain with a loop on the end. The loop was hooked to your belt during the day. At night a central chain was run through barracks and through each loop. The central chain was locked to an I bolt in the floor. The convicts were bedded down foot to foot. Forty eight men were housed in a barrack.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'S')uspend due process and start shooting people and I will help blow the rails myself.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'C')riminals can't be stopped, Cloud. They always find a way around obstacles such as you propose.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('darwinsdog', 'T')here was this cornucopian poster called allen from new orleans over on the oildrum blog, whose silver bullet happened to be fission powered electric trains. He'd become enraged at the notion that starving people would simply derail his pet trains & loot them.