[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', ' ')We(upper middle class) will be getting a huge tax increase i fear . We have to pay to keep the gubmint and all the others fed. oh god when cheap energy goes we are fucked, spec.

I just cannot accept this. How can we pay for other humans to have families. Thsi welfare allows them to have multiple kids. They dont work and never will but they keep breeding on our paycheck.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AnnaLivia', 'A')nnaLivia wouldn’t dream of causing this thread to be hurled into the Hall of Flames, and thought she had properly taken care not to do so. She hopes a discussion could continue here, in the original thread.

But Ruth Ruthless has written a message to Specop. So this is just to let any interested parties know that you can find her…shall we say ‘upbraiding of him’ there in the Hall of Flames.

Gimme a minute to figure out how to start a thread.



Anna

Rottweiler versus cheap-ass chew-toy

[Ludi]

If you don't have that much time, you really need to stop working so hard Specop!

[oowolf]

I'd like to stockpile some o' that instant karma-any one know if it comes nitrogen-packed?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', 'I')'d like to stockpile some o' that instant karma-any one know if it comes nitrogen-packed?

[rerere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')1-2%?? My ass.

[rerere]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')I wish I had as much time as those who take my tax money and buy hot dogs and beer.

[lotrfan55345]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')-2%?? My ass.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rerere', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')1-2%?? My ass.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')f you don't have that much time, you really need to stop working so hard Specop!

[Tyler_JC]

The key word being FOREIGN aid. More to the point, that's not possible. Rebuilding Iraq is foreign aid, (we may have caused the problem but hey). We are the largest donor in terms of total dollars. Private donations are the largest of any nation. Don't call the US stingy.

But even if we are stingy, it's all for the best. Less direct aid encourages development in foriegn countries. Less food aid helps local farmers compete with imported goods.

But even if development doesn't happen, it's all for the best. Less people alive means less people to die in the coming mass dieoff. We should help them reduce their populations by cutting off foreign aid. If anything, we give too much.

SEE, I win. I have a logical defense for every position that the US could be taking with regards to foreign aid...HA...ha...

[BRAZNOFF]

I worked in a small local store I had the pleasure of waiting on people on welfare. They came up with their WIC checks and got their milk, eggs ,cheese and promply gave half of it away to their friend right in front of me. then the use their ebt card ( for those of you who don't know thats a credit card for welfare) and buy cigeretts and beer and candy and soda, then they go to the ATM and get out money to buy lottery tickets. I had one guy in the store who bought a instant scratch off and won $500 He had his brother inlaw come in and cash it becouse the guy who bought it was on welfare and he didn't want to turn it over to welfare. Then they took the money and bought 4 cases of beer. Welfare also pays for daycare for children so the parents can have a time out from the stress of raising these children

[TWilliam]

The thing about welfare is that it was originally intended to be a hand up for someone who had fallen upon hard times, for example due to a job loss or a medical emergency. This I have no problem with.

What I do have a problem with is that somewhere along the line, welfare became a hand out, and thus a great many people are now "professional beggars", exploiting the welfare system as a way of life.

One idea I've had for a long time for dealing with the "welfare mamas" who pop out kids on a regular schedule just so they can collect a bigger check is this: for the first kid, they get full benefits. Tho' it's an atrocious statistic in this day and age, the fact is that somewhere in the neighborhood of 45% of high school girls in the US do not know that "they can get pregnant the first time". So they get to claim ignorance -- once.

Now, should a second child come along, it's obviously by choice (excepting rape of course), so should they seek an increase in benefits, they are permitted only half for this one, and that only if they submit to sterilization. And I do mean non-reversible.

Seems to me such a policy would go a long way toward eliminating "welfare as a way of life"...

[threadbear]

Braznoff, Your experience with welfare recipients in the store setting must have taken place many years ago. If I'm not mistaken, men without dependants, don't even qualify for foodstamps. For shelter, I'd think that they'd really be out of luck. I could be wrong, different country, but check it out.

I had someone tell me a couple of years ago (in British Columbia), during a time when Canada was being put through some pretty grim austerity programs that the govt considered a pet a dependant and would support a cat financially to the tune of 325.00 per month, for anyone on welfare. This was such blatant nonsense, I wanted to scream. The sad thing was, this fellow ran a bed and breakfast and must have related this little gem to all his tourist customers.

The tale of the cat was complete horsesh** and had never been true, but this guy went on and related other amusing welfare anecdotes that were true, but were actually outdated by at least a generation.

I don't like the idea of people taking advantage of the system either. It's bad for society and more than that, it's really bad for them, but I wonder if abuse is as endemic today with govt cutbacks.

[threadbear]

T William, Agree. And think it's actually being done in many states, as well as welfare to work. Noone should bring a child into the world, just so they can get a check. What a lousy deal for the child, and a vicious cycle for everyone to have to deal with.

I had what I thought was a solution too. Single people who aren't viable, as far as employment goes, would be paid not to have children. Not much, just a token amount, together with a reminder that if they have more than one child, while on welfare, that child has to be immediately put up for adoption. (With a qualifier that each case has to be judged individually, and the temporary or permanent nature of the situation has to be figured into the equation.)

There are a few people who were displaced when manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas, that are unfit for retraining. The mantra, "retrain for a hightech job" is really stupid, and some of these people have health problems as well that put them at a competetive disadvantage.

One thing I notice about everyone who is a self motivated go getter who can "rise above" just about anything is they possess marvelous energy that some can't manufacture, no matter what.

I'm not a complete bleeding heart, just very realistic.

I've seen this issue from the inside as someone who finally had to resort to govt disability after struggling with illness for a decade. I've seen it from the outside, as someone who paid fairly high taxes, and grew tired of the sense of entitlement that CAN accompany social entitlement programs.

Compassion is the key here. Allowing vicious social cycles to perpetuate is not compassionate, it's a knee jerk response to a complex issue. Ignoring the more subtle issues involved with handouts is also a knee jerk response.

[BRAZNOFF]

I quit working there last novembr it happened in July of last year and I never said he didn't have a family. As a matter of fact his wife is one of the ones who come in with wic checks and hands the food out to other people. I could not say anything at the time becouse I was told that I would be fired if I did.

[threadbear]

Braznoff, Different country, different rules, I guess. It's surprising to me that this goes on in the US, while we have far fewer cases of welfare fraud here in Canada. I know this to be true, from personal experience.

BTW, Was only on disability for a year and managed to get off by luck, not be a return to health. Though I easily qualified for full handicapped status, I knew plenty of really screwed up chronically sub clinically ill people who didn't even qualify for unemployable status. They'd be reduced to begging, I suppose.

Don't anyone kid themselves, anyone reduced to living like this, cigarettes and beer anecdotes aside is generally living a kind of waking nightmare.

[BRAZNOFF]

Yeah Its a living nightmare allright, For those of us who work hard to live and watch other able bodied people sit around and do nothing for a living. Here as strange as it might sound drug users and alcholics get welfare becouse they are too sick to work.

I am all for helping people out, I knit and crochet hat and stuff for the homeless shelter, I also donate handmade items to the hospital for premies and the elderly. But I am a firm beliver in God helps those who helps themselves.

[threadbear]

Braznoff, I feel the same way, with the added disclaimer, that I'm barely able to discern who is capable of what.

[lotrfan55345]

Any of you guys read the Time Magazine article on poverty? Pretty interesting....

I suppose for sheltered first-worlders like most of us on this forum, this gives you a lot of understanding/info of this issue.

Be aware that this is 7 pages long, so prepare for a 15-minute read.
I THINK WE SHOULD ALL READ THIS:
http://ciaraphone.envy.nu/poverty.html

(found through a search engine)