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Teach your children patriotism?

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 10 Mar 2005, 20:38:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', ' ')
I'm sure children understand this, exactly as they understand when their mother makes a mistake. They have the right to say "mom, you're wrong" without being blamed. This is the freedom I try to teach my son.
Hope I was clear with my bad english... ;)
I read a book the other day called 'Saving Ophelia' by a psychologist about the problems of adolescent girls. Much of it appies to boys as well. There was one girl who had been raised by New Age parents to be doubtful of authority and to express those doubts freely as a way of raising her to be a critical thinker and independently minded. It worked great until the girl hit adolescence. Then she became a completely other-driven status seeking lost girl with no will of her own when around her peers but very argumentative and belligerent around adults - all quite in keeping with the misguided, uncomprehending notions of her parents for whom intuition was sadly lacking. Kids need parents who are confident and comfortable with authority. They need to feel safe and we should not be dumping grown-up problems on them by reading Howard Zinn to them! All is well with your country is my message to them (and any problems can be spoonfed in small doses.)
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Unread postby k_semler » Thu 10 Mar 2005, 21:49:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', 'T')o love a peice of land inside imaginary borders?

No.


By any chance do you belong to La Raza, or subscribe to thier sideways propaganda?
Here Lies the United States Of America.

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Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."

Rest In Peace.

Eminent Domain Was The Murderer.
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 10 Mar 2005, 22:27:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', ' ')All is well with your country is my message to them (and any problems can be spoonfed in small doses.)
I am sadly aware that this is schizoid with peak oil not far off. I told them about this problem months ago and I know they haven't forgotten, but I don't talk about it any more. Everybody posting political bickering posts are equally schizoid, IMO, because it doesn't amount to much really. What difference does it make if Bush knew or didn't that Saddam had no WMD? Who in this forum of all places really gives a crap about the Social Security privitization issue?
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Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 00:01:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', 'T')o love a peice of land inside imaginary borders?

No.


By any chance do you belong to La Raza, or subscribe to thier sideways propaganda?


Never heard of it. and I thinks you need to be 18 to subrsibe to stuff...

I was planning to add a "but to love the people, infastructure, culture, ideals would be ok. As long it doesn't become to the point where so-and-so is better than so-and-so just because." but I ran out of time.
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Unread postby AnnaLivia » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 00:02:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')hey need to feel safe and we should not be dumping grown-up problems on them by reading Howard Zinn to them! All is well with your country is my message to them (and any problems can be spoonfed in small doses.)


you sound like you recommend more hiding-the-truth.

for one thing, i never recommended reading it to them. i suggested they read it themselves, which would imply they were of an age to handle the reading.

for two, Zinn leaves you positive, not negative. he shows what good things people have done...he cares deeply about the people, just exposes what schools omit about the true story of this country's government. kids mature enough should not be deprived of this information.

and you absolutely have to be joking that "all is well" with this country. please. it's their future.

i guess the only people who would care about SS are those who don't believe the world is going to end just yet.
"O hell, here comes our funeral. Let us pry....for our missed understandings."
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 00:36:28

Its a very confusing world. There are so many crazy ideas that even adults can't sort it out. The past is so complex with so much injustice and cruelty. No way should it all be dumped on sweet kids in, say, the way smallpoxgirl would. It just isn't healthy for an American kid to be deluged with anti-American hatred, specially not from their own father. Better to show them an attitude of honor and respect for their own country. Critical thinking about our imperfections can be taught to them when they have matured. Old fashioned notions like it's a wonderful country - that's the wholesome thing to do where children are concerned. (as far as SS, it's toast is all I was saying - empty promises, a ponzi scheme. Think differently if you want to, play a game of hide-the-truth with yourself. Its a free country!)
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 01:25:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')
If I had a child, I would teach them . . .about lying genocidal scoundles like George Washington. . . about evil American civilians . . . I would teach them about all the hundreds of other nations who were murdered by Americans. . . I would teach them to hate the American children

What kind of a world would it be if children weren't taught egotism and hate?
Am I the only one who sees a perverse irony here?
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 01:42:01

Now the smallpoxgirl might claim that its intentional irony, but that would be disingenuous because the venom is practically oozing out of my monitor.
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Unread postby k_semler » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 02:12:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('k_semler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', 'T')o love a peice of land inside imaginary borders?

No.


By any chance do you belong to La Raza, or subscribe to thier sideways propaganda?


Never heard of it. and I thinks you need to be 18 to subrsibe to stuff...

I was planning to add a "but to love the people, infastructure, culture, ideals would be ok. As long it doesn't become to the point where so-and-so is better than so-and-so just because." but I ran out of time.


Hmm, do you have a time machine handy? I'll need to travel back in time a few years to do that, (be 18 again). Maybe you should have added that qualifying section, then I would have nothing to bitch about. ;)
Here Lies the United States Of America.

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Epitaph: "The Experiment Is Over."

Rest In Peace.

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Unread postby spear » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 08:24:16

Teach them history.And the difference of right and wrong.When they are old enough they will make their own choices.
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Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 14:05:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'N')ow the smallpoxgirl might claim that its intentional irony, but that would be disingenuous because the venom is practically oozing out of my monitor.


:lol: Ummm...if there's something oozing out of your monitor you need either an electronics repairman or an excorcist. I will leave you to decide which.

My point was that there are a lot of good reasons to hate the United States and virtually no reasons to endorse it, other than a self destructive fixation on consumption or stupidity created by public mis-education. Patriotism is millions of people collective lying to themselves about their past, excusing the crimes of their rulers, and convincing themselves about what a grand thing it is to be ruled. Everytime I see the flag waving idiots on the overpass near my house cheering "Go Team", all I can think of is the charred bodies of dead Iraqi children and their weeping mothers. I wish those people would take a half an hour and seek out the pictures of what they're doing, would understand that all their happy little yellow ribbons mean bloody bandages and blown off limbs for some other parent five thousand miles away. I wish they were shipped to Iraq to sort through the crumbled buildings and pull out the dead themselves. Maybe then they'd get some idea of what they're doing.

The United States is not a people. It is not a land. It is a political system. It is among the most lethal, deceitful, and corupt political systems that has ever existed. I hate the United States government. I hate it for what it has done and what it is doing, not because I think some other national government is so much better. :cry: I hate it because every two weeks it extorts money from my paycheck to buy more napalm to drop on more children.
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 15:04:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '
')
:lol: Ummm...if there's something oozing out of your monitor you need either an electronics repairman or an excorcist. I will leave you to decide which.
Good comeback :lol: Regarding your sentiments about the USA, I got the picture, loud and clear.
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Unread postby RIPSmithianEconomics » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 15:36:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AnnaLivia', 'p')eople used to be better informed than we are in the information age. about their governments, anyway. newspapers were honest (more so) back then...and there were more independent sources.

i think the people have fallen, yes, but they were pushed, first. either way, it's time to get off our knees.


"The theatre isn't what it was."

"Indeed, my friend, and what's more- it never was what it was."

Newspapers have always been biased, and they always will be. Impartial news is pratically an oxymoron, aside from the purely factual. It isn't that people never hear- it is that they never listen.
There'll be war, there'll be peace
But one day all things shall cease
All the iron turned to rust
All the proud men turned to dust
So all things time will mend
So this song will end
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Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 15:42:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')ts a very confusing world. There are so many crazy ideas that even adults can't sort it out. The past is so complex with so much injustice and cruelty. No way should it all be dumped on sweet kids in, say, the way smallpoxgirl would. It just isn't healthy for an American kid to be deluged with anti-American hatred, specially not from their own father. Better to show them an attitude of honor and respect for their own country. Critical thinking about our imperfections can be taught to them when they have matured. Old fashioned notions like it's a wonderful country - that's the wholesome thing to do where children are concerned. (as far as SS, it's toast is all I was saying - empty promises, a ponzi scheme. Think differently if you want to, play a game of hide-the-truth with yourself. Its a free country!)


Wow. First of all, I don't think lying to your kids is commendable, do you? Do you think that establishes trust? For example, if you don't really think America is a pile of dogshit, teaching your kids rabid patriotism and unquestioning servility won't be a lie, but will it be good for them?

What you call "Anti-American Hatred" I would call the "truth". We're a colonial empire. I'm sure lots of British parents taught their little ones that what their troops were doing in India was bringing civilization to savages. Thats not a lie. Sick, but not a lie. Your version of correct child-rearing is a lie if you don't include America's history as a colonial empire. I really hope you don't reproduce- until you understand what that means in terms of "evolution".

PMS, your approach would basically pass on your own values- to fight hard against justice, to do an end-run around the truth. You would be teaching your kids, ultimately, if they're smart enough to figure it out, that you're more of a puppet master than a man.

Personally I believe we shouldn't teach little kids false things. Have a fun time on Christmas, but don't tell them a fat man is breaking and entering down the chimney. Tell them that it is imaginary, and that other people believe that He is real because they are confused, and not very smart. I would take it as a point of pride to know my kid was busting up other kid's illusions.

I think you should keep your kids out of public school as long as possible (as compulsory schooling is required in this country- can't have the little bastards figuring out the truth- they could revolt!) and teach them universal human values over the self-centeredness of nationalism. Teach them how to value nature instead of worshipping "progress".

If you can't do these things, all you're really doing is creating more little Eichmanns. You're really putting off responsibility to future generations by laying our problems at their feet, just as our parents laid theirs at ours.

I realize having children is a selfish act- that people have children primarily to serve their own self-interest. But its even more selfish to raise them with lies, fantasies and half-truths. It should be criminal. If adults "can't sort out" crazy problems its because they weren't ever taught to think critically. Perhaps this is a sort of second childhood for you, PMS, and we are your parental figures. Now go to your room and think about it. :twisted:
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 17:30:22

I saw 'blisteredwhippet' and I thought 'uh oh, now here comes some real hostile bullshit! Whippet good, blistered palm!
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 11 Mar 2005, 17:38:15

And as far as Santa goes, their big sister already told them that Santa fell in a lake and was eaten by alligators.
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Sat 12 Mar 2005, 01:44:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BlisteredWhippet', '
')I realize having children is a selfish act- that people have children primarily to serve their own self-interest :twisted:
You don't realize anything. A withered, heartless guy like you wouldn't know anything at all about the subject.
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Unread postby BlisteredWhippet » Mon 14 Mar 2005, 16:04:27

:roll:
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