[Ludi]

My biggest worry is that I'm going to have to provide food and shelter for my aging parents and for my sister and her husband, because as far as I can tell, they aren't preparing much, currently. My sis and her husband don't plan to purchase land for another two years, though they are starting to grow their own food at their rental property.

Does anyone else worry about having to provide for their unprepared relatives and/or friends? What are you doing to prepare for these extra people?

[CarlinsDarlin]

Ludi,
I'm in much the same situation. My mom discounts the entire thought of peak oil (they'll think of something, she says). Dad accepts it in theory, but I think he thinks that this is a problem we'll have to deal with in the "future" - some far off date. My sister (single mother of a three - 5, 2, and 1 year old) is a complete airhead when it comes to thinking of anything beyond next week, and my brother & his wife are up to their ears in debt. They have a 19 year old and a 17 year old. I worry about these two kids more than anyone - and no, they don't have a clue.

The one thing that might make my situation better is that all but my brother's family lives on the same 160 acres of family land. My brother is in town - a house on a decent sized lot about 10 miles from here. If push came to shove, family could provide room, as both my parents and I have spare bedrooms.

However I worry about them all the time. Today I was babysitting my 15 month old neice, and reading the DOE's report (referenced in another thread) that I'd printed off. I looked up to see my neice playing with her plastic electronic piano, drinking out of a plastic sippy cup, and eating store bought cookies (all of which her mother purchased). I thought, this child is going to have to learn to make a lot of adjustments in her lifetime.

I can't fix everything, but I'm doing what I can. I ride my sister constantly about the need to budget better, and learn to cook from scratch, etc. etc. I may not be able to change her, but I can do a lot with the kids. My 5 year old nephew and my 2 year old nephew were out helping me last week to pick up some rocks from my garden spot. Last year, Ethan (the 5 year old) helped in the garden a lot. He became a pretty good cucumber picker . My point is, I'm trying to teach her children by example to be more frugal, and learn skills that will help them as they grow older.

My brother and his wife, after seeing our success in gardening, have planted a garden last year. This year, he actually cut some limbs out of a tree to provide some more sun on their lot, so they could expand the garden. They did some water bath canning last year, and my sister in law asked me to help her locate a good used pressure canner last summer - which I did. She plans to learn to pressure can this summer, and I'll be helping her. They're also trying to pay down their debt, and are considering moving out onto the family land as well (they say in a couple years).

Mom and dad have decided to order some fruit trees and grapes. They've started buying a few things in larger quantities, but not a lot. They're trying to build back their savings.

Now, are they doing these things because of Peak Oil? No. They're doing it because they've seen how much we've gotten out of building our level of preparedness, both in terms of finances and quality of life, and because it makes economic sense to them.

They will in no way be fully prepared. I doubt any of us will be as prepared as we would like to be. But any small step I can get them to take now, will mean that they'll be more able to deal with things that happen as this unfolds. We're building infrastructure to be able to weather this better - both in terms of skills needed and land improvements made. They don't need to accept Peak Oil right now in order to see the benefit of being more self-reliant. As long as they're doing something - anything - to be less dependent, they'll be in better shape than those who are doing nothing.

So, any bit of self-reliance I can help them learn or begin to practice, regardless of their motives, is what I can do. And that's what I am doing. Hopefully, they'll begin to understand the concept of PO, but even if they don't at least they won't be so blind-sided when the slide starts getting more slippery.
Kathy

[Itch]

I've thought about this before, and determined that things could quickly go to shit if there was an invasion of relatives. Fortunately for me, my family is widely dispersed throughout the country, so using my house as a rallying point is unlikely. I also don't tell very many people about the fact that I have a large supply of food. On the outside, and also the majority of the interior, this place is just another suburban house; my room is the place that looks like a warehouse.

So I think the best thing to be done to avoid something like this is to appear that you're just as unprepared as everyone else, or do something to avoid attention. That's all I can think of right now. If a dozen or so family members show up at the door, you're probably already on the way to failure. If people are showing up at your house expecting to be fed, I reckon they won't give a shit about carrying capacity and limited supply.

How close by are your family members, Ludi? And when we're at the point where other people are searching for food, will they have the ability to transport themselves to your location? I think that long distance travel will go before available food does.

[kpeavey]

My brother, his wife and kids live in town.
My father and his wife winter a couple hours drive south of here.
I have an aunt and uncle an hour east of him.
I have a cousin with his wife and kid on the east coast.
I have a couple of very close friends within an hours drive.

It is my hope that all of these people show up on my door. Each one of the adults has the ability to contribute specific skills to a community. Not only are they practical, level headed and think independently, there is a level of trust and commitment that is hard to find in a hired hand.

Most of these people do not need to knock on my door, they already have a set of keys. The inclusion of any of them only serves to enhance the homestead. Should any of them show up on my doorstep seeking refuge, It would not be unannounced. If they were in a position where they had to knock on my door, they would be bringing with them all their resources, which would be added to the group unconditionally. This is the nature of these people.

[spear]

Agree with KPeavy.This is also my philosophy.
Everyone helps.Most in a crisis situation as the upcoing years, will pull together at least in the beginning months,because of the pscycological factor(fear).
After that...... well, you know how it is living with family.
In past years,this is how people lived.
I think this is especially good for the younger kids as it will build strong bonds between them.

[Riverside]

I am preparing for my parents. They already live with us, and are both disabled, my mother moreso, but my father can't take care of her by himself. I have no way to ask him to stock up on all of his medication, if I do he will think I've lost my mind.

We are putting our house on the market in late spring, so the next place will have to either be big enough, or need two houses (trailer, cottage, etc.) I will make sure they have a woodstove, which I will have to keep lit for them. All of my gardening and food saving is for them too. They have already lived with us for 3 years, so conflicting personalities aren't such an issue like they were at first.

Before we move we are going to have a long talk with the only family member that we feel we can trust. He will be told the door is open, and to pick up dh's grandmother if things start to look bad. We will make room for them too. The rest of the family will know we want to "buy a farm" but they will not know why. They will be told to come whenever they want, but I don't think they will show up.

Honestly, with the best medical care, I don't see either of my parents living past the next 5 years. I would much rather them be with me, than to leave them to stuggle on their own. The same goes for the rest of the family, we can do much more together than we can alone.

Carla

[Madpaddy]

My folks can show up whenever they want. They both were born and reared on farms and have forgotten more about crop growing than I will ever learn. Some people are posting here as if they think there will be food shortages next week -

We still have time folks although even as I write this I am driven to remember Saruman talking to Gandalf as Isengard in LOTR 1.

"Time, how much time do yuo think we have"

[mindfarkk]

my mom, sister, nieces & nephews live quite a distance from me. i would be unlikely to be able to get to them in an emergency. if i could afford to plan for them i would, but i'm not really able to do anything for myself yet, so planning for them is out of the question. my sister is extremely resourceful, so i will trust her to handle her end.

what i can better see is me, my BF and his three kids heading for my brothers house and begging for shelter. not pretty but there it is. he has a big home, although not big enough for two large families; importantly, he has a big yard. big enough to do a good bit of gardening.

if i can make it long enough to get my financial act together, which would be a while - at least a year to get a mortgage, at least fifteen to get out of debt - i am always planning with room enough for BF and his three (by then adult) children in mind. that's already more than i can handle, so no point in extending it further.

like i said, my bro has a nice home in a suburban neighborhood somewhat off the beaten track; assuming i'm not showing up on his doorstep looking cold and hungry, i would probably try to stay in contact with him and help him and his family and share the knowledge and skills i have been accumulating. i think he has most of the resources he needs to survive except perhaps (and obviously this is important) a water source.

the hard part for me right now is that i feel a need to create a bivouac kit and everything i put in it is X5 - one for me, four for my little family. that's five sleeping bags, etc. etc. prep for bugout in an extremely cold environment gets expensive, even bare bones. plus i have to find a place to put all this stuff where BF, who thinks i've lost my marbles, won't notice them . the uncertainty of whether it will ever be necessary, vs. the fear of needing it and not having it, are unpleasantly at odds in my heart as well.

[Ludi]

This looks like a concern for a lot of folks, but some seem in a better position than others, with younger and/or healthier relatives and friends. Although my sister and her husband have plans to buy land near us, in two years, whether they will actually be able to do that is largely up to fate. They don't seem to be taking PO as seriously as I am. My folks don't even know about it, as far as I know, and I'm not even on speaking terms with them currently....

[aahala]

You can not make a leopard into a house pet. It's against its nature.

It's a waste of time trying to change the nature of someone or worrying too much about it.(Easier said than done, of course).

An individual beyond childhood will be and behave as they want -- you may be able to move their natural coarse a degree or two one way or another, but people don't change greatly unless they want or they are physically forced to.

Even when a person is forced to do something, their natural resistance can be so great, it's better not to force them.

[dagod1]

First is to read, read and read more and then more research and then read again.

Start setting aside food for 1 year. Then rotate it and eat it on a regular basis.

Then pay down debt. We closed a few credit cards, and shortly we will have a duplex sold and pay off 30% of our mortgage with the profits. Then we are going to stash some cash at home, some gold coins, and 1 oz silver coins. I figure we should be doing very well.

This oil shortage will not be real bad for 10 years because the us will steal oil from others.
Although we will see a gradual increase in the price of gas every single year.

Then we are going to move out to the country and build an underground shelter that is hidden from others. Kinda like an arch under ground. so in 2025 when people are fighting over food and that will last months or so, then we will have a nice place to live in safety away from the house.
Rob

Gas is already at the high it was last year.

[Raxozanne]

Why bother stockpiling food when there will be thousands of civilians acting as happy meals on legs (if your armed). People will start eating other people because of the immense shortage of food so you might as well get used to it. There are no limits to how barbaric we can become, its the human way.

[Ludi]

Raxoanne, I don't agree with you, and I don't appreciate you taking a big stinking crap in my thread.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Even though my family knows I am preparing as well as I can, none of them would come to me or try to depend on me. That is one benefit of being the black sheep of the family. They have spent so many years making me a sub-human element in their family that they would never consider it.

My mother doesn't expect TSHTF until after she and her husband are dead. My step mother will be dead by the time TSHTF. and my sister wouldn't come to a heathen like me even if it meant she and her kids starved to death before the rapture.

So on one hand I am lucky and OTOH I would not have what ever skills they might possess (limited though they are). I would be more interested in my mother's mechanical genius anyway, and my stepdad's farm knowledge.

[Raxozanne]

Maybe you should learn how to spell Ludi.