[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dan1195', 'T')heir most obvious mistake is that that they all assumed 3-4 years ago that the initial rises in the price of oil were temporary. This widely held belief was combined with the booming sales of large trucks and SUV's by a general public that likewise believed this to be the case. ..
Due to the significant lead time between initial concepts of models and model improvements and the availability of said model in their showroom, most stuff on the lot today was meant for $1.50/gallon gasoline.

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')ith all their crackerjack economists and deft executive talent, you say they could not have foreseen peak oil? Hell, I knew about peak oil back in 2002 when the Globe and Mail Report on Business magazine had a long article about it, which I researched and came to see the light. I am just regular engineer, not a multi-million a year executive. So, how could I have seen it, and they did not?

They must have been asleep at the switch or something.

[gunny7258]

The UAW wrecked the American auto companies slowly and steadily. Being in skilled trades i have worked in union shops and non union and i can tell you union guys are lazy,overpaid and have a "I deserve it attitude"

Autoworkers are overpaid and as Jeremiah Wright said "The chickens have come home to roost"

Combine that with the ridiculous laws and restrictions imposed on US companies and its a losing battle.

[Mesuge]

Deferred Karma payback finally?

1/ Big oil, big tire, and Detroit => conspired in the 1940/50s to destroy streetcar/tram system all across the U.S. There has been court case on this one, it's well documented.

2/ Big oil, CARB, Detroit and the bushevik junta killed the full EVs in the mid 90s - early 2000s. And yes it was ~$40k "luxury" low volume segment but with spillover potential on the entire fleet.

3/ Respiratory diseases, highway-concrete madness, suburbia, oil-spills, funding the ME feudal royal houses, during all those decades etc..

Detroit and oilly pals won't be missed at all..

--
The Ford co. is the least evil of this bunch but only by a tiny notch,
so they might stay afloat the longest and/or reinvent themselves in some asian cross-ownership riksha type deal..
--

PS to blame this hubris primarily on UAWs is just beyond stupid ridiculous, it's like blaming the two bushevik presidential terms on the voters, yes they have participated and later not mass rioted, but as the exit polls/election irregularity studies have clearly shown, the voters in majority did not vote for this gang..

[gunny7258]

Ok i will retract and say that the UAW played a huge, but not exclusive role in the demise of the big three.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gunny7258', 'T')he UAW wrecked the American auto companies slowly and steadily. Being in skilled trades i have worked in union shops and non union and i can tell you union guys are lazy,overpaid and have a "I deserve it attitude"

Autoworkers are overpaid and as Jeremiah Wright said "The chickens have come home to roost"

Combine that with the ridiculous laws and restrictions imposed on US companies and its a losing battle.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'T')he state still has an excellent fruit growing operation. Peaches, plums, cherries, etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')M market cap ($6.5B) is worth about 30% less than southwest airlines ($9.9B) (LUV) .... Right now, I think Southwest is the better investment, wow.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I') am virtually certain that GM will seek bankruptcy protection fairly soon. One of the immense benefits GM would see from this move would be that it would enable it to jettison virtually all of its retiree medical and some of its pension plan costs.

In many ways GM is the perfect candidate for bankruptcy protection, since one of the best features of bankruptcy for a company like that is it can basically reject all of its non-core contracts--i.e., all of its contracts with individuals who are no longer working.

It would also give GM the opportunity to re-negotiate all of its current agreements with union employees, which would undoubtedly mean lower wages and fewer benefits for those who did get to keep their jobs.

Why on earth did GM not see this fuel price situation coming for the last five years (at least)? I have no idea. It boggles my mind that GM just wandered down the big truck and SUV road, apparently never considering what a rapid increase in gas prices would do to that business.

Amazing.

[frankthetank]

Old Man McCain and McBama...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')etroit's calls for help from Washington are gaining some traction, as both Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama this week let auto-industry executives share the spotlight in their presidential campaigns, and suggested they'd lend auto makers a hand.

During a meeting Friday at a General Motors Corp. small-car factory in Lordstown, Ohio, Sen. McCain said he doesn't support a "classic" bailout of the ailing domestic car companies, but he laid out initiatives to help.

"It depends on what you mean by a bailout," he said. "If you're talking about it in the classic terms, I'm afraid not."

But the Arizona Republican said he would offer a spate of tax incentives and infrastructure support aimed at encouraging innovation of more fuel-efficient products and expanding availability of alternative fuel. He vowed to get involved in enforcing trade deals that may disadvantage auto companies trying to export cars and parts.

[MyOldTDiIsStillGoing]

Remember during the prosperous times of the 1990's and a little after, the profit sharing the big 3 had with the UAW was, well for them, great. Every time I saw a Chevy Suburban or Ford Excursion barreling down the freeway I would laugh, "Hey, you just gave $12K to the UAW worker that year you bought that "SUV".

Even the Japaneses and European manufactures caught on to the huge profit margins on big, luxury vehicles. Dealing with manufacturing cost while I was working for the auto industry, the true manufacturing cost and labor cost is only a few $K more for a big vehicle versus an econ box.

Most car manufactures lost almost $1K per vehicle to sell an econ box. The stats were out there on this. If they tried to sell at true cost with a little profit, many in the low income bracket would be price out of the market. So the auto companies recouped the lost by sell the big luxury vehicles at huge profit margins. The perception of the general public is: if the vehicle is 2X the size, it must cost the car companies 2X the price to produce it. Ever so wrong.

Tack on the "luxury" label and now it is 3X. Why did Honda start the Acura line, Toyota the Lexus line, Nissan the Infinity line? They learned the big 3 method of GM with Cadillac, Ford with Lincoln. A Cadillac is just a stretched out Chevy Impala when you get down to it. A Lexus is just a fluff and puff Camry with added sound deadening materials and upgraded materials for maybe $1K more.

So when working for the industry, people would ask me "Hey, what is the best car for the money?" Even while working for Japaneses manufacturer, I would reply: A Dodge Neon. Chrysler lost money on the car, so giving to profit, it was priced the lowest, lower than a Civic. You got the most for your money. We did benchmarking on the Neon when it came out and the Japanese manufactures learned to squeeze more money out of their car. A lot of cost savings was needed to off set the constant federal regulation for safety and emissions. Back in the mid 90's, every car had a federal compliance penalty of $4500 tacked on to the sticker price, whether it was an econ box or a luxury boat. Hate to see the price tag today with added things like side impact, air bags to sky heaven, and tighter emissions since then.

Now that the market needs and demands smaller, more efficient cars, the auto industry is screwed. Wards Automotive, the trade magazine for the industry, claims that it would be realistic that the price tag will be $40k for a vehicle to recoup all the cost to produce a vehicle. Even the Japanese manufacturers are scrambling on this since their costs are now almost matching GM's costs (estimated now at only about $100 difference). Ouch, never ends.

[frankthetank]

A Dodge Neon? Didn't they have a horrible problem with blowing head gaskets (like so bad there should have been a recall)? A buddy had a Neon RT back in the late 90's and while it was a fast/efficient car, he had nothing but problems with it. Last i know it was dead and he bought an Acura.

I will say that the Ford Escort was a decent car. I use to drive a 4 door/auto for a job i had and i would have to make trips to Madison with it. While maintaining a solid 80mph, i'd still get upper 30's to the gallon. U still see a ton of the older ones on the road, so they must have been built decent.

[MyOldTDiIsStillGoing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'A') Dodge Neon? Didn't they have a horrible problem with blowing head gaskets (like so bad there should have been a recall)? A buddy had a Neon RT back in the late 90's and while it was a fast/efficient car, he had nothing but problems with it. Last i know it was dead and he bought an Acura.

I will say that the Ford Escort was a decent car. I use to drive a 4 door/auto for a job i had and i would have to make trips to Madison with it. While maintaining a solid 80mph, i'd still get upper 30's to the gallon. U still see a ton of the older ones on the road, so they must have been built decent.

[frankthetank]

Ford has always had the smarts to use Madza motors in a few cars. My Focus right now has a Madza motor. Ford also put a Madza motor in the newer Ranger. I think they are called Duratech or something. Efficient motors with decent gas mileage. Mine avg exactly 30mpg over the last 330 miles and thats all city driving. Not bad for a tall, roomy car with an auto.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'A') Dodge Neon? Didn't they have a horrible problem with blowing head gaskets (like so bad there should have been a recall)? A buddy had a Neon RT back in the late 90's and while it was a fast/efficient car, he had nothing but problems with it. Last i know it was dead and he bought an Acura.

[frankthetank]

Some more:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')dated 59 minutes ago

DEARBORN, Mich. - Every morning, just after getting coffee, Mark Fields fires up his laptop to pore over a computer model showing real-time U.S. auto sales figures.

On this morning in the middle of May, the man who heads Ford Motor Co.’s Americas operations has seen enough.

The line on a chart showing subcompact car sales for the first two weeks of the month goes almost straight up. The one for pickup trucks, Ford’s biggest profit center, runs almost straight down.

[TheDude]

GM shares plunge to their lowest level since 1954

Saw this on CNBC and I was

By Greg Bensinger

Bloomberg News
General Motors Corp. shares fell yesterday to their lowest since 1954 after Goldman, Sachs & Co. cut its rating to "sell" because of a worsening sales outlook.

The stock dropped nearly 11 percent, its biggest daily decline in three years. The Goldman revision follows Fitch Ratings Inc.'s cut Wednesday of GM's long-term debt to "B-," six steps below investment grade.

Gasoline prices that surged 34 percent this year to above $4 a gallon, consumer confidence that is at a 16-year low, and tighter credit conditions have hurt auto-industry profit. GM, which had been rated "neutral," may need to raise money and cut its dividend as its cash flow deteriorates, the Goldman analysts wrote.

"GM's automotive cash flow burn this year and next is likely to lead it to look to raise capital," Goldman analyst Patrick Archambault said in the research note. That "could lead to significant shareholder dilution."

[smallpoxgirl]

It occured to me the other day, are all these "free gas" or "$2 gas" incentive programs kind of an all-in bet from the auto manufacturers? Kind of the logic that if gas prices come down, it won't cost us much. If gas prices go up, we're going bankrupt anyway.

[jdmartin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I')t occured to me the other day, are all these "free gas" or "$2 gas" incentive programs kind of an all-in bet from the auto manufacturers? Kind of the logic that if gas prices come down, it won't cost us much. If gas prices go up, we're going bankrupt anyway.

[frankthetank]

3:24Chrysler to cut truck, SUV production: report
3:24Chrsyler to shut Jefferson North Plant for 1 month: report

no link...

down down baby