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The Unfortunate Incident Protocol

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Postby Jack » Mon 07 Mar 2005, 23:50:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', '
')
As to chickenhawk Jack, do you need contributions towards your airfare over, so you can show us how its done? Or is genocide by remote close enough for you, as for George jnr, Cheney, Rush, etc?


Remote control is rather nice - and, with the new robotic devices being developed, it will become more available than ever! 8)

Heck, if you can get me immunity from criminal and civil action, along with about $15,000 per month in wages, I'll be happy to help deal with some of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib. If you'd like, I can mention your name while I'm working with them. 8)
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Postby maverickdoc » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 00:01:49

OK Jack now that we know where you stand what do you think of The Unfortunate Incident Protocol? The topic of this thread.
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Postby Jack » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 00:25:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', 'O')K Jack now that we know where you stand what do you think of The Unfortunate Incident Protocol? The topic of this thread.


I think it's a somewhat amusing bit of parody; it creates a pseudo-theory to describe a set of behaviors, with the implication that such a protocol exists. Actually, mistakes happen...then everyone wants an insincere apology, which is duly supplied...and everything cycles again. This is true whether one deals with an incorrectly filled order at a fast food joint, or the death of thousands.

For those who share the author's perspective, the piece communicates a comforting antiwar message, suggesting a plan to commit assorted atrocities followed by cynical apologies. Those with opposing views will decry the implication that those offering apologies are repeating some scripted plan.

Yet the truth - as I present in my first paragraph - leaves both sides feeling annoyed. That's not a bad place to be. 8)
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Postby Liamj » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 00:25:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', '
')
As to chickenhawk Jack, do you need contributions towards your airfare over, so you can show us how its done? Or is genocide by remote close enough for you, as for George jnr, Cheney, Rush, etc?


Remote control is rather nice - and, with the new robotic devices being developed, it will become more available than ever! 8)

Heck, if you can get me immunity from criminal and civil action, along with about $15,000 per month in wages, I'll be happy to help deal with some of the prisoners in Abu Ghraib. If you'd like, I can mention your name while I'm working with them. 8)


Yanks already have 'immunity', thanks the Shrubs disdain for the International Criminal Court, bailing on the Geneva Convention, policy of killing unembedded/housetrained journo's etc.

I was offering to help you go fight Jack, so you could walk at least some of your talk. But you'd rather join the torturers & perverts at Abu Gharib? Says it all. Excuse me but i have to go puke now.
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Postby Jack » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 00:38:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', '
')Yanks already have 'immunity', thanks the Shrubs disdain for the International Criminal Court, bailing on the Geneva Convention, policy of killing unembedded/housetrained journo's etc.


Yes, but several U.S. soldiers have faced court martial. No, I'd need a full guarantee of immunity - criminal and civil, as I mentioned earlier.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 'I') was offering to help you go fight Jack, so you could walk at least some of your talk. But you'd rather join the torturers & perverts at Abu Gharib? Says it all. Excuse me but i have to go puke now.


Sure! They've got air conditioning, better quarters, and a fixed location so they can get better food. What's not to like? 8)

Spreading hate and discontent is all very well, but I prefer not to be uncomfortable while doing it. :-D

Have dental tools, soldering iron, vegetable peeler, hand cranked electricity generator, and cayenne pepper. Will travel. :twisted:
Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn! [smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
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Postby TrueKaiser » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 00:54:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')Sure! They've got air conditioning, better quarters, and a fixed location so they can get better food. What's not to like? 8)


i highly sujest you aquire the following documentary and watch it several times,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Torture: The Guantanamo Guidebook.
Monday 28th February 2005 Ch,4

For a grim TV experiment a group of volunteers agreed to undergo 48 hours of the type of treatment sanctioned by the US for detainees at Guantanamo Bay. The point the programme makes – painfully, powerfully and at great length – is until you see what some of these methods involve , you’ll have little idea of how easily interrogation becomes out and out torture. By all accounts, (including the FBI’s) this is exactly what has happened at Guantanamo.
The Guantánamo Guidebook recreates some of the practices used at the US naval base where hundreds of so-called "enemy combatants" have been held without trial or access to lawyers for nearly three years.
Using an east London warehouse and declassified internal documents obtained from US sources, programme-makers mocked up conditions as they are inside Guantánamo, before subjecting seven volunteers to some of the milder forms of torture alleged to have been used by US authorities.
The programme exposed the volunteers, three of whom are Muslim, to 48 hours of "torture lite" including sleep deprivation, the use of extreme temperatures and "mild" physical contact.
As at Guantánamo and more vividly in Abu Ghraib, the volunteers were also subject to periods of enforced nudity and religious and sexual humiliation.
The programme is part of a four-pronged investigation into the modern-day use of torture practices, in and outside the Cuban island base which Amnesty International has described as an "icon of lawlessness".
It is part of an upcoming season of films examining the use of torture in the "war against terror".
Presented by Jon Snow, Channel 4 says the programme is designed to examine the widespread use of torture and whether it can ever be justified in what the US and UK governments have called the wider war "against terror."
"The use of torture or of information gained through torture has been justified as essential on the war against terror," said the Channel 4 head of news and current affairs, Dorothy Byrne.
"This season of programmes challenges the viewers to watch torture techniques we know are used in Guantánamo [and asks whether] can such torture ever be justified. Does it work? And how the values of western society are undermined by the use of such torture."


it can be found at http://www.uknova.com/ all you need to do is sign up(which is free) and search for the four part torture series(i do recomend you watch them all.).
then tell me if you would like to be treated like this cause i am sure we can arange somthing. :twisted:
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Postby Liamj » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 01:01:03

Jack is a troll.

I apologise to all for feeding this troll and distracting from the thread, post here again the excellent Unfortunate Incident RPotocal by Dr Teresa Whitehead.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')size=150] The Unfortunate Incident Protocol [/size]
How the powerful dodge their own bullets
by Dr. Teresa Whitehurst

"A little girl running in fear from armed men is killed in cold blood. … The authorities are trying their best to come up with a reason why this schoolgirl was shot so many times after she was dead – because that's the unusual part. But in no way will the Israeli government, nor the U.S. government, decry the fact that Palestinian civilians like her are being shot on such a regular basis. Instead, they will decry Palestinian terrorism again (unnecessary because we despise terrorism already, but it's a good tactic for diverting our attention) and remind us that soldiers have a right to protect themselves.

"If that doesn't do the trick, they'll bring out the ultimate weapon: 'There are always a few bad apples, and they will be punished.'"
- "Palestinian Girl, Interrupted"



While so many journalists have been killed by the U.S. military that some have wondered aloud (and lived to regret it) if media personnel might actually be targeted to dissuade independent reporting on Mr. Bush's wars, it's nonetheless unusual for a just-freed journalist, held hostage for a month, to be shot, along with her rescuer, by U.S. troops.

Pro-Bush/pro-war Americans are quick to defend "our troops," even when families are slaughtered and children are orphaned at brutal checkpoints. But the Italians, a people more in possession of their faculties than the radical "conservatives" dominating this morally challenged nation of ours, are less sanguine, perhaps because they're not in the habit of defending cold-blooded murder.

In yet another tragic blunder, revealing to any sentient human being what the U.S. military machine has come to represent for people across the world, "our troops" – no doubt following immoral but quite legal rules of engagement – shot first and asked questions later. Left dead was brave secret service agent Nicola Calipari, who had rescued journalist Giuliana Sgrena. Reuters reports:

"The shooting in Iraq on Friday, as the reporter was being whisked to freedom after being held hostage for a month, was sure to fuel antiwar activists in Italy and put pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi."

Pressure on Berlusconi? No way! He's a pal of GWB, so not to worry. As I've noted before, the Bush administration, like the Blair establishment and the Israeli government, has turned the "bad apples" excuse for rotten deeds into an art form. To save everyone the time and trouble (not to mention the emotional ups and downs) of following this saga from its tragic beginning to its predictable end, allow me to fast-forward the events of the coming days, weeks, and months.

Damage Control: UIP to the Rescue

Here's what I've determined, from observing the same scenario numerous times, to be an "Unfortunate Incident Protocol" (UIP) , used by both the U.S. and Israeli governments whenever news of our own evildoing gets out:

1.

A tragedy occurs: "Our troops" have killed more innocent people, only this time the victims aren't Arabs/Muslims (in neocon-speak, the "evildoers"), thus the potential for public uproar and backlash exists.
2.

Code Blue! Any signs of uproar or backlash must be attacked preemptively. Immediate public appearances are required by Mr. Bush and the leader of the victim's home country: Talk extensively about the event, how you're praying for the families, and so on.
1.

Stress your "regret" for this "unfortunate incident."
2.

Immediately announce "an independent investigation."
3.

If the natives are getting restless, make statements or decisions to illustrate that this time you're really taking the incident seriously.
4.

Displays of outrage or of "demanding explanations" from the offending nation may be necessary if protests are developing; this is the only situation wherein a coalition partner is not required to present a united front with the Bush administration.
5.

Announce again "the investigation," but add that this time the investigation will be really thorough, leaving no stone unturned, and will not end up whitewashing guilt at all higher levels of authority.
6.

Emphasize that both leaders are in full agreement now, that you're both torn up about it, and that neither is catering to the wishes of the other.
3.

ASAP, tell your State-influenced newspapers to allot only one or two days to the outrageous nature of the incident. ....<snip>


http://www.antiwar.com/whitehurst/?articleid=5096
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Postby Jack » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 01:35:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TrueKaiser', 't')hen tell me if you would like to be treated like this cause i am sure we can arange somthing


You're too kind. But, like most people, I find it easier to bear the pain of others than my own. So I'd much rather dish it out than take it. 8)
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Postby TrueKaiser » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 01:41:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')You're too kind. But, like most people, I find it easier to bear the pain of others than my own. So I'd much rather dish it out than take it. 8)


then like most people, you are not only a troll but a hypocrite among other things.
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Postby Barbara » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 04:14:18

Being in Italy, I can post some useful info.

That car was carrying an hostage just rescued. And italians are US ALLIES!
How can you think they didn't alert US commands of what was happening? How can you believe US troops were "shooting at a car running too fast" not knowing what there was inside?
The car was shooted at HALF a mile from the airport. On that road run western cars ONLY. It never happened any kamikaze incident there: no way the iraqis can run on that road.
A plane was WAITING for the hostage in the airport, engine on.

The intelligence man shooted from the US was a very important one. Maybe the most important in Iraq. He rescued other hostages without any killings. So you believe he was just an asshole running fast through police just to see what happens? At half a mile from the airport?

He was shooted with a single bullet in his head. And people here is beginning to believe the target was him, and not the journalist.

Anyway, please, use your head and don't believe all the bullshit being said by your govt.
**no english mothertongue**
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are closer than they appear.
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Postby gg3 » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 05:02:26

UIP seems to be a journalist's hypothesis about a policy based on observed behaviors. Okay, fair enough.

As for the Italian journalist.

This illustrates what's really f*cked about this war.

In all probability it was an innocent enough screwup, similar to the kinds of screwups that produce friendly-fire casualties (which by the way are typically 30% of your casualties in war).

But thanks to the track record of bad intel, overt lies, torture, more overt lies, inflated estimates, more lies, and more lies after that, America's credibility is shot all to hell. So regardless of what actually happened, we'er going to get pinned with it.
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Postby bart » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 05:14:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'A')nd people here is beginning to believe the target was him [secret agent Calipari], and not the journalist.

Whoa, Barbara, what's that? Why would Calipari be a target? I would think that if there were a plot, killing Calipari would be the worst possible outcome for the perpetrators. It would unify the Italian left and right against Bush.

But the whole thing seems strange. Why would a professional like Calipari allow anything to happen (like speeding) that would endanger the mission?

I've been trying to follow the story, but haven't heard several of the details you've reported. I did read in an article somewhere that the Italian authorities have possession of the auto.

Thanks for the update, Barbara.
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Postby Jack » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 10:05:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'I')n all probability it was an innocent enough screwup, similar to the kinds of screwups that produce friendly-fire casualties (which by the way are typically 30% of your casualties in war).


I strongly suspect you're right. My compliments on your analysis. 8)
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Postby Liamj » Tue 08 Mar 2005, 18:25:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Barbara', 'A')nd people here is beginning to believe the target was him [secret agent Calipari], and not the journalist.

Whoa, Barbara, what's that? Why would Calipari be a target? I would think that if there were a plot, killing Calipari would be the worst possible outcome for the perpetrators. It would unify the Italian left and right against Bush.

But the whole thing seems strange. Why would a professional like Calipari allow anything to happen (like speeding) that would endanger the mission?

I've been trying to follow the story, but haven't heard several of the details you've reported. I did read in an article somewhere that the Italian authorities have possession of the auto.

Thanks for the update, Barbara.


Maybe Calipari found that Sgrena's captors had pale skin & curious accents?
Maybe they were Falangists, working for neither the US nor Iraq?
Maybe Sgrena shot him herself because he found out she knew her kidnappers were fakes, blowing the whole hostage circus that distracts the West from the deaths of tens/hundreds of thousands of Arabs, Persians & Kurds?

My point is we don't know, all we've got is one version from the Whitehouse (who have lied and lied again) and the other from an Italian Left newspaper (prob the most heavily targeted European nation for subversion in postWW2 period).
That anyone still automatically believes the neocons I find frankly incredible.

I still think Dr Whitehouses UI Protocol is textbook stuff, maybe postgrad lvl public relations. It fits.
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