[benzoil]

As a Chicago cityslicker who actually *did* move to the country to be more self-sufficient I can tell you that it costs alot to live this free. The setup costs are steep. The jobs here pay much less than in the city and my wife really misses the culture.

That said, I went from a 45-90 minute commute to a 7 minute commute by car (longer by bicycle in the summer). I know my neighbors. My son just got done with 4H Horse clinic. And, I feel I am better prepared to handle most PO scenarios. I also enjoy my life more. THAT's the key.

Oh...and I'm not that much more self-sufficient after 2 years, except in eggs!

[joelcolorado]

We were talking about retirement and the same conversation holds true for this site. THe question we came up with was.....

How much do you NEED?
But even more so...

How much does it take.?

Need means bare bones survival. How little can you live on. Calorie wise you have to have a plan. I dont think many people can survive due to the lack of calories day to day. I could kill enough deer to live for a long time, but soon those will be depleted too. My grandfather told of all the rabbits and other game being decimated in the depression.

If you have chickens or beef, someone will come take those from you so its only a short term solution. There will be no law to protect you or the law will take it in the name of the community.

[benzoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joelcolorado', 'W')e were talking about retirement and the same conversation holds true for this site. THe question we came up with was.....

How much do you NEED?
But even more so...

How much does it take.?

[MrBean]

22 km. is one hour on a bike. Half, if you are in shape and have a good bike.

But then, if she biked, she wouldn't need the gym...

Yes, the post is nothing but whining.

[Revi]

I have lived in NYC and in some very rural places. Either may be a good place to be post peak. I think the places that won't make it are in suburbia. Any place where you are dependent on your car to get you to everything you need will be a bad place to be.

Driving around won't be an option for most people.

In the country you will have to plan on being a farmer.

If you like being a farmer you should live in the country.

There are lots of small rural towns to live in where you can do some gardening and live a nice life without much money.

The best place to be is a walkable neighborhood in a smallish town.

[xerces]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johhnytrash', 'A')s a Chicago city-slicker looking to move to a country town to get the land I need to be more self-sufficient, and as a city slicker who is not going to have very much money, do you think that the growing crisis with rural people having a hard time getting by means I should give it a miss and stay in the city?

[CarlinsDarlin]

Revi,
Well said. Even though we live out of town in a rural area, I would agree that a smallish walkable town would be a good option. If we were to ever move from here (which I have no plans to do), the only place I would consider would be a small town. And I mean SMALL. You get the benefit of community (everybody knows everybody) but are still far enough away from the larger city lifestyle to be able to garden, barter, and so on.
K

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johhnytrash', 'A')s a Chicago city-slicker looking to move to a country town to get the land I need to be more self-sufficient, and as a city slicker who is not going to have very much money, do you think that the growing crisis with rural people having a hard time getting by means I should give it a miss and stay in the city?

[joelcolorado]

my dad moved to a small town 5 yrs ago and now he is stuck there with no care, no grocery and high gas prices. he is 78 and I wonder how he intends to keep that up as some day he wont be able to drive to get those things.

I wondered about that when he moved there. So far from any aminities.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xerces', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('johhnytrash', 'A')s a Chicago city-slicker looking to move to a country town to get the land I need to be more self-sufficient, and as a city slicker who is not going to have very much money, do you think that the growing crisis with rural people having a hard time getting by means I should give it a miss and stay in the city?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Any place where you are dependent on your car to get you to everything you need will be a bad place to be.

[TheDoctor]

Lots of good posts and opinions here. I don't think there is any one right answer. I've lived rural, medium city, big city (Melbourne, Australia) and now on 10 acres near a small town in SE MI with a daily 50 mi one-way commute to a Detroit metro auto job. I'd say the right place to live depends heavily on five factors:

1) Fast crash vs. slow crash.
2) Personal debt/savings level/employment status.
3) Health.
4) Possesion of "country skills" or ability/willingness to learn them.
5) Personal lifestyle preference (hard physical labor and privacy of rural vs. 'easy' lifestyle but heavier govt. control in the city).

For a fast crash, I wouldn't want to be near a big city - risk of food/water shortages and violence (high population density combined with lack of resources = angry mob - note Europe the past week). That said, I don't see a fast crash as likely.

For a slow crash, country living is great if you have low debt, high savings, a good paying job, good health and country skills. If you're laking any of those, the country might not be your best choice. Do it because you want the lifestyle, not because you think you need rural living to survive a slow crash.

I prefer the country living lifestyle. I also stay rural just in case Bush or Israel invade Iran, which will surely result in a fast crash. We're also only a 4-minute drive to a modern hospital in the small town near us - an important consideration as country living often results in "country stitching up".

I think the suburbs & exurbs (large house, little land, long commute, but still lots of govt. control) is a bad choice for either a fast or slow crash.

One other scenario: If I were jobless in a depression (a very likely near-term personal scenario for me here in SE MI), I'd much rather live on a paid-for farmsted outside a small rural town rather than the big city or burbs. I'd rather live off modest savings and grow my own food and wood for heating rather than rely on government/private handouts....

[Heineken]

Nice comments, Doctor. I share many of your feelings.

The main reason I'm "country" is that I prefer it.

Do you believe you could grow enough of your own food to survive?

So you're commuting 100 miles a day. You must be feeling it.

[johhnytrash]

I'm 40 miles one way, so yeah I'm really feeling it.

A rural small town sounds good to me. I'm a bit tired of the city with people all over and having to grow all my plants in pots because I only have a driveway and no yard. But yeah I'd be interested because of the lifestyle, and not just because I'd think I'd be safer when I'm out of the way when a fast crash happens.

So far it sounds like the hurdles are not insurmountable. Arranging for a transition rather then a migration seems the best way to go about it.

[mobil1]

I'm feeling reasonably comfortable here in my home on 3 acres in a "semi-rural" area near Canada's capital Ottawa.

I'm on the edge of Gatineau, Quebec which is on the north side of the Ottawa river and within 5 miles of the upstream side.

Downtown Ottawa and my job are both about 30 minute drives, in my new Prius that gets me as much as 60 MPG in city Prius can also act as a generator, and can be converted to electric.

I'm keeping a 25 gallon stockpile of gas (safely). I'll consider increasing that if necessary. I do software development (network security which is booming due to internet bad guys) and can telecommute if needed. I have 10+ years in my career doing telecommute.

Heated with oil the last 6 winters. Will use electric space heaters this winter at 8 cents per KWH from James Bay hydro. I think I'll save 50%; last years usage was 1600 + litres or about $2300 at current rates of $1.50 per liter ($6 per gal) or so.

Counting front yard, in theory have 1.5 acres of plantable space, although some soil work might be required. Back acre is well wooded but sometimes slightly swampy.

Many critters here, including deer and bear, ducks, geese etc.

Supposed to be big developments nearby planned but I hope development plans go on hold. Still see new home construction here. Canadian economy still somewhat chugging along. esp. with oil in the west and some energy in the east too, as well as other commodities.

As far as social order goes, this is Canada, and we are somewhat more socialist, so fewer worries there, IMO, at least in the short term.

For anyone sick of the US, consider Canada eh ? Just learn how to drink our beer and watch hockey and you'll be good to go...

[threadbear]

I live on a semi-rural island wedged between Vancouver island and the mainland of B.C. My family is all on the mainland. The combined driving ferry time to get here is about 4 hours, from Vancouver where they all live. They are highly irritated that I'm living here and I can't quite get them to comprehend that I simply can't live in a city or the suburbs. I suffer psychologically, in a crowded setting, as does my husband. I have to be near nature. Have to. I'm only half alive in other settings. My house was less than half the price of a comparable place in Vancouver, the drive to the town center is about 7 minutes. I have friends who are artists, free thinkers and retired early like me and my husband. In the city we'd be out of our natural element AND socially isolated. What I don't tell them is once you gear down and start to resonate with the natural rhythms of the planet, city dwellers come across as being weirdly out of synch, superficial, self absorbed and neurotic. (Not all of them, but many)

Add to this the fact that crime will increase exponentially when tshtf, the numbers of homeless will escalate to Bombay like levels and many city dwellers will be unemployed or will have to strike some kind of moral devil's deal to maintain employment, and I'm so glad I'm not there. I think it's possible to live a decent life within a community in a city, and maybe what's coming will forever change the way people relate to each other in cities, but country living is a better facilitator of cooperation.

[joelcolorado]

What island is that. Have a friend whose mom has cabin near there. Cant recall the name..What is your islands name. Does it have an airstrip?

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '.')...... I simply can't live in a city or the suburbs. I suffer psychologically, in a crowded setting, as does my husband. I have to be near nature. Have to. I'm only half alive in other settings. ...........

[Heineken]

Cities are nice when you're young and looking for sex (and money).

But as you get older and uglier you want to be where nobody can see you. The country is perfect for that.

[joelcolorado]

I live in a smaller town and its not bad. But the 100 mile commute...ONE WAY is a killer. Wife works here and cant move as she is a doctor and they need her here.