[Tyler_JC]

I should have been more clear.

I think the study of non-essential subjects is vital to the human spirit. I take classes in philosophy and art history in order to broaden my horizons and gain a deeper understanding of the world (also because I need to fill out a requirement on my transcript). I enjoy these classes and they make me happy.

However, I do not hold any illusions that a person should borrow $100,000 in order to study philosophy. It is not a rational decision. Happiness is great but it's hard to be happy if you're hungry and homeless.

If you think about a future in which Middle Class families have to make tough choices about which child to send to college and what they should study...I can't see them letting Timmy study Egyptology while Jimmy is denied the chance to study electrical engineering.

No one could argue that the world needs Egyptologists more than it needs electrical engineers.

If you can afford to do both, more power to ya. But if you have to make a choice...it's a no-brainer.

[coyote]

There have been several excellent points raised here, and I can see the thread as a whole expressing my general views on the subject. (This is a critically interesting topic for me, since I am a teacher and I have staked a lot of my future on the belief that colleges will be around for some time.)

I agree with Cog's opinion that community colleges will do well, for various reasons mentioned in this thread. The cost of four-year universities will inevitably rise (from already insane amounts), and many courses of study that they offer will come to seem frivolous to families struggling to stay afloat. As Tyler says, they will be for the wealthy. But I believe that most courses of study that will interest most students in the future will be more practical; and many practical fields of knowledge may be learned in lower division studies, especially if some of the non-essential "filler" classes are carved out of the curriculum. In other words, if community colleges start looking more like the trade schools mos mentioned.

The obvious curriculum survivors of the paradigm shift -- engineering, chemistry etc. -- will not be the only ones. The practical arts do not die when the economy sours -- in fact, my belief is exactly the opposite, the higher our economy has soared (or appeared to), the more these subjects have been cut from schools. Live acoustic music, art, live theater -- these pursuits may just experience a renaissance when TV, movie theaters and CDs become a prohibitively expensive diversion and real communities are forming to support them. In addition, I expect and hope for a return of traditional artisan industry, furniture making, etc. Community colleges that emphasize vocational studies should do well.

Rather optimistic of me, I know.

[archaen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'S')he is still set on chemistry or chemical engineering.

[Cog]

The Illinois university system has a website that covers all courses taught in community colleges and their transferability to the university system. The junior college in question is closely assosicated with the nearby university. Her English requirements will be complete before she leaves high shcool. There is a recipocal agreement that Honors English in her junior and senior years of high school will count as college credit at the university. Only $155/3credit hrs of college credit. A bargain really.

She is enjoying her first exposure to college in between her junior and senior year in high school. Summer school is more laid back. I don't know if I will continue the junior college thing after she graduates from high school in 2009. By that time, she would be ready to go to university in the fall of that year, she will have around 24 semester hrs of college credit . A lot depends on peak oil and where the economy is at.

My job is land surveying is somewhat sensitive to huge increases in fuel and the state of the economy. I haven't noticed any downturn in our government contracts yet but I have noticed a downturn in new private construction in the area.

[graham]

Hi i'm new to this board and was wondering how architecture (particuarly enviromental design) will fare? Ill probably take an M/Sc in eniromental design for my part 2

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'H')i i'm new to this board and was wondering how architecture (particuarly enviromental design) will fare? Ill probably take an M/Sc in eniromental design for my part 2

[dohboi]

Well, let's see. Let's go back deep into the pre-fossil fuel age. What was the core of instruction in the late middle ages and renaissance, and really up until the ff age really got going. Oh, it was the classics, Greek and Latin. Beyond these there were the trivium: grammar, logic and rhetoric; and the quadrivium: music, astronomy, geometry, and arithmetic.

We're all guessing here, and projecting our own wishes and values onto an unknowable future, but there is as good an argument that we will return to a curriculum which is at least 4/7 language and music (or other arts) as move to one where such "silly" pursuits will be banished from the schools.

As they have fewer and fewer electrons to engineer, electrical engineers may well find themselves out of a job.

Watching their entire society implode may lead many to start asking deep questions about history, values, society, humanity...and they might not find many answers to those questions in chemistry text books. (I love chemistry, by the way--nearly majored in it.)

I do think that there could be an acceleration of the winnowing we have already seen in higher ed. But if there are no jobs, many people may choose to go back to school, if nothing else, just to do something productive with their time.

Of course we could well end up with a Pol Pot type situation, where the masses turn on all knowledge as dangerous, burn down libraries and kill teachers... There is a deep and strong strain of anti-intellectualism in the US, and it could easily be ignited by a demagogue.

So who knows. But I think educational institutions would do well to at least think about and discuss how they may have to adjust to the new reality. I know of none that have even started the discussion in a serious way. Does anyone know of one?

[graham]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'H')i i'm new to this board and was wondering how architecture (particuarly enviromental design) will fare? Ill probably take an M/Sc in eniromental design for my part 2

[coyote]

In that case, graham, it sounds like it may be a bit tougher than I was imagining. I don't know how much money there will be for new structures in the future. Damn crystal ball's busted and I can't seem to get it to work no matter how much I glare at it.

[Cashmere]

You people are being far too nice.

Somebody please pull up a course catalog from Harvard circa 1800 and check out the majors.

In the next 15 years, you're going to see a precipitous drop in the following majors:

sociology
psychology
sports medicine
african studies
[any ethnicity] studies
communication
journalism
history
poly sci
women's studies [thank f---ing God]
language
any other BS major that has no use in society.


The cheap energy age has allowed us to send our kids out of the idiot factories and into a 4 year deferral of personal responsibility.

For many, it's 5 or 6 years.

It would be humorous to return to my old school just to find out who's been on campus the longest. There has got to be some 25 year old who's been matriculating for 7-10 years, getting pussy on Government backed loans, as it were. Hell, why grow up? That guy might be the smartest cat there. Screw growing up. At college, you work 8 hours a week to maintain a C average, you drink 7 nights a week, you have constant access to loose women, you have no responsibility beyond making sure the fridge is stocked with beer, and it's all a free ride - at least for the 7 years you are there.

Why worry about the piper? The piper appears to be choking on his pipe.

Let's not kid around.

The majors I listed are worthless.

Take the million or so psych grads each year and put them in a pile and you've got a pile of people with worthless degrees.

Sociology? Even worse.

The only reason these majors are offered is because some dumb ass kid will take the loans and get the degree.

Walk through the mall. It's wall to wall with 4 year grads in . . .

some sh-t.

You won't find a lot of chem Es or accounting majors working in retail sales.

Good riddance.

College has become a sad joke.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'H')i i'm new to this board and was wondering how architecture (particuarly enviromental design) will fare? Ill probably take an M/Sc in eniromental design for my part 2

[emeraldg40]

For those that still want an education for themselves and/or their

college age kids in a "Wheres the oil?" world......I have taken many

courses on-line, on cable tv and even a few on campus over the

years. Im a CTU online student and I love it. My classmates are

from all over the place...including soldiers in Iraq. There is a great

bunch of kids coming up behind us, I hope the world will be as

great for them as it has been for this ol hippie

[graham]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'H')i i'm new to this board and was wondering how architecture (particuarly enviromental design) will fare? Ill probably take an M/Sc in eniromental design for my part 2

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'f')ew solar panels onto existing building types. Future buildings will be smaller and made from 'primitive' materials-
wood, straw, bamboo, earth, turf, paper/card, they will be very simple (true minimalism), and possibly organic in shape(?). Tradition wont fare much better than modernism though as its just as unsutiable.

[Terran]

I would be hoping that schools with agricultural programs should do well, since we do need agriculture to feed people.

I do plan on going to a agricultural school, where the basis is in agriculture, and vet.

[Ghog]

Cashmere, I love this quote:

'The cheap energy age has allowed us to send our kids out of the idiot factories and into a 4 year deferral of personal responsibility.'



Anyway I am currently studying 'Electronics Engineering Technician' via the Internet as I still feel small electronics will have a future in the PO World. Anything related to mass production/scale will vanish along with education that has no 'survival' benefit.

My opinion is that any PO-useful (agriculture, crafts, efficiency, etc) skill taught at a learning institution will do well, but a large number of colleges will fold. Considering many are more about athletics than education, they won't be missed.

[cephalotus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', '.').. There has got to be some 25 year old who's been matriculating for 7-10 years, getting pussy on Government backed loans, as it were. Hell, why grow up?...

[HappyFace]

The question was asked: will colleges fare? The short answer if, of course, as long as folks perceive a desire and need for higher education. Plus, college and the military both keep young people off the streets in times of crisis, and the buildings already exist and are suitable for little else (not enough bathrooms for habitation, no facilities for industry, poorly organized for business, etc).

In the longer run, whether 'higher education' comes to mean sociology or advanced bee-keeping is any body's guess. Also as graham suggested lots of college buildings are dumb dumb dumb. But then the cities around them are also dumb dumb dumb. Which ones succumbs first is a good question.