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Why does it seem..

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:23:44

Sort of. I guess you're saying you think these changes will be made fast enough to avoid collapse of the system? Is that correct?
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:24:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'I') beg to differ about "...many people in the industry see the big picture...." . No. The decision maker levels may have a few who see the big picture, but I'd put it at 1% or less, with regard to PO and its' implications.

CEO's are hamstrung by the demands of the push for earnings, in THIS QUARTER, and damn the future. Or, they will be booted out. It is that simple. There is no longer any room for forward thinkers of the degree needed today. I'm convinced that most major companies in the US will fall like a lead balloon right alongside all the quick-buck artists on Wall Street, as the growth paradigm changes to simple survival. No different than the unprepared soccer mom in suburbia, who discovers that with $150 to $200 oil, her lifestyle is not only unaffordable, but doesn't exist in the way she knew it.


Great point.
If that is the case then I suppose people will soon see the big picture when profits decline.
No doubt the suburban lifestyle is one that cannot be maintained(other than suburbs that live off of rail road transportation.).
However, things like malls or pricey hair salons won't vanish, they will simply go into the city. Many urban malls right now are doing quiet well while their suburban sisters are losing profit.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby mos6507 » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:25:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')People aren't morons, many people in the industry see the big picture and are for the well being of their company.


It's not that they are morons. It's that they are blinded by short-term selfish motives. People don't like to be told they need to consume less and will do whatever it takes to rationalize not changing their behaviors.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:26:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'S')ort of. I guess you're saying you think these changes will be made fast enough to avoid collapse of the system? Is that correct?


I don't believe things will go on like normal.
Some industries will surive, others will collapse.
Some companies will be smart enough to make the moves fast enough while others won't.
As long as there are consumers and relatively cheap products many industries will continue. They will have to adapt like everyone else or will collapse.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:28:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')People aren't morons, many people in the industry see the big picture and are for the well being of their company.


It's not that they are morons. It's that they are blinded by short-term selfish motives. People don't like to be told they need to consume less and will do whatever it takes to rationalize not changing their behaviors.


They will adapt or collapse, it is their choice.
Yes, all too often companies( and consumers) look too short term.
Short term is important but long term is incredably important.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:31:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', ' ')They will have to adapt like everyone else or will collapse.


I think many or most of us here think people will have to adapt or collapse, but what many of us see as "adapting" other people would see as "collapse" (dramatic change in the system). Many of us here are doomers because we don't see enough people adapting fast enough to avoid painful collapse.

What are you doing to adapt, for instance?
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:41:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', ' ')They will have to adapt like everyone else or will collapse.


I think many or most of us here think people will have to adapt or collapse, but what many of us see as "adapting" other people would see as "collapse" (dramatic change in the system). Many of us here are doomers because we don't see enough people adapting fast enough to avoid painful collapse.

What are you doing to adapt, for instance?


Its just a change of system.
Consumer society won't collapse but it will change to a large degree.

I try and consume less and learn more about everything from gardening to herbs(Even though my sister pretty much is herbs and gardening). I'm also saving my money up for a bicycle.
My family will be moving from this dump of a town soon and once we move we hope to plant a very large and functional garden.
Other than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do. Being a teenager also limits my options.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:45:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')Other than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do.


Really? You think it's harder for a lower-middle class family to use less energy and other resources than it is for a wealthier family? I'm not totally convinced of that myself.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:49:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')Other than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do.


Really? You think it's harder for a lower-middle class family to use less energy and other resources than it is for a wealthier family? I'm not totally convinced of that myself.


Haha not that way. We use very little electricity in the day(mostly due to the benefit of an older home.) and we are highly against water wasting. We also recycle as much plastic and tin-cans as possible.
But things like owning bicycles for everyone, having large property, making your home energy effecient(especially for renters haha), purchasing only localy made products, etc is not practical for a lower middle class family. I hope it will be come more economical but currently it is not.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:54:48

I don't personally think having a large property is necessary. Even a small property can be used to produce some of one's own food. But yes, there should be more financial help for low-income people to improve the energy efficiency of their homes, especially for things like insulation and better windows.

Here's a website I like about people with a small property who are doing all they can to transition to a low-energy way of life:

http://pathtofreedom.com/
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 20:59:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') don't personally think having a large property is necessary. Even a small property can be used to produce some of one's own food. But yes, there should be more financial help for low-income people to improve the energy efficiency of their homes, especially for things like insulation and better windows.

Here's a website I like about people with a small property who are doing all they can to transition to a low-energy way of life:

http://pathtofreedom.com/


Excellent website.
However, that presents two problems for my family.
We live in a poorly maintained area with crime(fortunately our street is decent and has a few restored victorians.) and another being that when this house was restored(to an extant) they threw the chemicals away in a shallow well in the backyard that has destroyed the soil and that area is the only place where one could grow anything. But that won't be much of an issue once we move.

Making houses energy friendly would help. All too often though the 'green renovations' are aimed at the wrong type of houses. Usually pre-WWII homes that tend to be very well insulated.
Its the newer homes that lack the energy efficiency.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby MD » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:00:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') don't personally think having a large property is necessary. Even a small property can be used to produce some of one's own food. But yes, there should be more financial help for low-income people to improve the energy efficiency of their homes, especially for things like insulation and better windows.

Here's a website I like about people with a small property who are doing all they can to transition to a low-energy way of life:

http://pathtofreedom.com/


Balance will win in the end Ludi. I'm certain of it.

Certain!
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby JPL » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:01:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', 'O')ther than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do. Being a teenager also limits my options.


...throws hands up in air and stomps out of thread. Jesus H Christ when I was your age I was, aggug, never mind.

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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:04:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', 'O')ther than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do. Being a teenager also limits my options.


...throws hands up in air and stomps out of thread. Jesus H Christ when I was your age I was, aggug, never mind.

JP


0_o
I would ask for those to not judge my over all knowledge on these issues simply by my age.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Homesteader » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:07:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JPL', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', 'O')ther than that, there isn't a whole lot we, or any other lower middle class family can do. Being a teenager also limits my options.


...throws hands up in air and stomps out of thread. Jesus H Christ when I was your age I was, aggug, never mind.

JP


Another teenager who has all the answers!

You have done well to spend time on this forum and are better informed than 99% of people your age. Best of luck to you.
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
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Beliefs are what people fall back on when the facts make them uncomfortable.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:10:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '
')
Another teenager who has all the answers!

.


I don't mean to make it seem as if I believe I have the ultimate solutions, I am just very opinionated.

Not all teenagers live within the bubble of pop-teen culture. =)
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Homesteader » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:19:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')
Not all teenagers live within the bubble of pop-teen culture. =)


Yes, I got that impression, and I commend you for it. I'm a high school biology, Earth and environmental science teacher btw, and yes my students get an earful.

As an aside, after one class had read a particularly pointed article by Tom Whipple I asked for their thoughts. One young man burst out "I am so wasting my time in driver's ed!"

:lol:
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:25:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')
Not all teenagers live within the bubble of pop-teen culture. =)


Yes, I got that impression, and I commend you for it. I'm a high school biology, Earth and environmental science teacher btw, and yes my students get an earful.

As an aside, after one class had read a particularly pointed article by Tom Whipple I asked for their thoughts. One young man burst out "I am so wasting my time in driver's ed!"

:lol:


Haha a friend of mine recently stated something like that when gas hit four bucks. She was very unhappy.
The main reason I am interested in things such as this is becuase being homeschooled and yet to start highschool(middle schooler here.) and my parents being my teachers have always encouraged questioning all, understanding all, etc *points to username.*

Whether or not one would want to know such grim information is debatable. Most people I know simply do know of the issues its just not something one wants to think about.
Almost like someone with a disease not wanting to know if they shall live or not(as grim as that sounds.).
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby Homesteader » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:38:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')
Not all teenagers live within the bubble of pop-teen culture. =)


Yes, I got that impression, and I commend you for it. I'm a high school biology, Earth and environmental science teacher btw, and yes my students get an earful.

As an aside, after one class had read a particularly pointed article by Tom Whipple I asked for their thoughts. One young man burst out "I am so wasting my time in driver's ed!"

:lol:


Haha a friend of mine recently stated something like that when gas hit four bucks. She was very unhappy.
The main reason I am interested in things such as this is becuase being homeschooled and yet to start highschool(middle schooler here.) and my parents being my teachers have always encouraged questioning all, understanding all, etc *points to username.*

Whether or not one would want to know such grim information is debatable. Most people I know simply do know of the issues its just not something one wants to think about.
Almost like someone with a disease not wanting to know if they shall live or not(as grim as that sounds.).


If you are a middle-schooler then I'm a . . . . never mind, not appropriate. We home schooled our children for some years, sounds like your "teachers" are doing an outstanding job.

Carry on. . .
"The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close. In its place we are entering a period of consequences…"
Sir Winston Churchill

Beliefs are what people fall back on when the facts make them uncomfortable.
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Re: Why does it seem..

Unread postby socrates1fan » Thu 19 Jun 2008, 21:39:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Homesteader', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')
Not all teenagers live within the bubble of pop-teen culture. =)


Yes, I got that impression, and I commend you for it. I'm a high school biology, Earth and environmental science teacher btw, and yes my students get an earful.

As an aside, after one class had read a particularly pointed article by Tom Whipple I asked for their thoughts. One young man burst out "I am so wasting my time in driver's ed!"

:lol:


Haha a friend of mine recently stated something like that when gas hit four bucks. She was very unhappy.
The main reason I am interested in things such as this is becuase being homeschooled and yet to start highschool(middle schooler here.) and my parents being my teachers have always encouraged questioning all, understanding all, etc *points to username.*

Whether or not one would want to know such grim information is debatable. Most people I know simply do know of the issues its just not something one wants to think about.
Almost like someone with a disease not wanting to know if they shall live or not(as grim as that sounds.).


If you are a middle-schooler then I'm a . . . . never mind, not appropriate. We home schooled our children for some years, sounds like your "teachers" are doing an outstanding job.

Carry on. . .


Haha.
Thank you.
It would be best to get back on topic lol.
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