[Serial_Worrier]

People simply commute too far for their jobs. The solution is to move closer in to the inner-ring suburbs or even the city. People don't want to do it because of the crime situation. So I suggest a combination of huge carbon taxes + depopulate the inner ring of criminal elements = massive reduction in oil usage.

[dohboi]

"depopulate the inner ring of criminal elements"

wtf does that mean? Kill all the niggers?

Can't find the source now, but a few years ago there was a study that showed that it was far more likely to be killed or maimed in car accidents in the suburbs than to be hurt by violence in the city.

Fear of the city is mostly fear of "those people" (=racism).

Most people are hurt by people they know. If you don't associate with violent people, it is highly unlikely that you will be a victim of lethal violence. When it does happen it is news, so that's what you see.

I don't know why I'm bothering to discuss this with someone with so many obvious shortcomings on the brainpower front.

Your tax idea is great, but this is like telling a cigarette smoker that it would be a good idea to cut back. Given the current, right-wing inspired absolute dread of any taxes for any reason at any time, there is slim chance that any significant portion of politicians are going to risk their political hide to raise gas taxes.

I liked your "even the city," like this is some absolutely scary, radical idea. Many, many of us have been living happily in inner cities all of our lives, not contributing massively to the problem like you good folks in the god-forsaken, car-dependent suburbs and exurbs.

Your impulse to consolidate and flee the never-remotely-sustainable suburbs has merit, but your means are politically unlikely, on the one hand, and ignorant/hateful/bigoted...on the other.

[jlw61]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Serial_Worrier', 'P')eople simply commute too far for their jobs. The solution is to move closer in to the inner-ring suburbs or even the city. People don't want to do it because of the crime situation. So I suggest a combination of huge carbon taxes + depopulate the inner ring of criminal elements = massive reduction in oil usage.

[eastbay]

US DOJ crime statistics speak volumes on this issue. I suspect few have actually read through them. They are dry reading, but pointedly and frightfully accurate. I'll leave it at that.


Yes, much higher gasoline taxes would over a fairly short time effect interesting and profound demographic shifts ... two-way demographic shifts, I presume. It may be the best way to [s]prevent [/s] delay the economic collapse of' many major inner cities and speed the inevitable decay of the outer suburbs.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '"')depopulate the inner ring of criminal elements"

wtf does that mean? Kill all the niggers?

Can't find the source now, but a few years ago there was a study that showed that it was far more likely to be killed or maimed in car accidents in the suburbs than to be hurt by violence in the city.

Fear of the city is mostly fear of "those people" (=racism).

.

[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'U')S DOJ crime statistics speak volumes on this issue. I suspect few have actually read through them. They are dry reading, but pointedly and frightfully accurate. I'll leave it at that.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dohboi', '"')depopulate the inner ring of criminal elements"

wtf does that mean? Kill all the niggers?
....

[MarkJ]

Crime is only one of the reasons many people don't live in some cities.

Many people in my area moved outside some cities or never lived in city areas due to high property taxes, zoning laws, traffic, noise, pollution, poor street design, poor road design, poor access to main roads, poor or mediocre school systems, blighted properties, vacant properties, apartment buildings, non owner occupied multi-families, affordable housing projects, close neighbors, problematic neighbors, lack of privacy, small lots, small yards, small homes, small garages, no garages, older inefficient homes, homes with lead paint and asbestos, homes in need of too much work, limited parking, limited off-street parking, no room for expansion, no vacant building lots or acreage, no views of mountains, fields, lakes rivers, trees, no access to parks, outdoor recreation etc.

What's funny is that when myself and other developers, builders or investors have renovated city homes, apartment buildings etc, people complain that the rents, leases, or mortgage payments and taxes are too high. People want to live in a nice home or apartment in a nice area with a good school system, but they don't want to pay market rates.

From an employment, transportation and quality of life perspective, some of the suburbs are the best places to live, but the cost of land, existing homes, new construction homes, rentals and modern building codes, zoning laws, limits on subdivision, lot size, road frontage, manufactured homes, multi-families and other deed restrictions have priced many people out of the market.

The suburbs have the large building lots and large tracts of undeveloped or underdeveloped farmland and acreage necessary for residential, commercial and industrial growth. Because of this their tax base is constantly growing so they can offer tax breaks and incentives to developers, builders, businesses and industry which creates more jobs, more home buyers, more property tax and sales tax revenue, better schools, better roads, public transportation etc.


On the subject of taxation, myself, family, friends and many of customers are already paying more than our fair share of income taxes, property taxes and sales taxes as well as providing housing, creating jobs and stimulating the economy. More taxation will impact the poor dependent on our financial support.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'C')rime is only one of the reasons many people don't live in some cities.

Many people in my area moved outside some cities or never lived in city areas due to high property taxes, zoning laws, traffic, noise, pollution, poor street design, poor road design, poor access to main roads, poor or mediocre school systems, blighted properties, vacant properties, apartment buildings, non owner occupied multi-families, affordable housing projects, close neighbors, problematic neighbors, lack of privacy, small lots, small yards, small homes, small garages, no garages, older inefficient homes, homes with lead paint and asbestos, homes in need of too much work, limited parking, limited off-street parking, no room for expansion, no vacant building lots or acreage, no views of mountains, fields, lakes rivers, trees, no access to parks, outdoor recreation etc.
.....

[Revi]

The suburbs are already dead. Why do you think they have become the place to mine for copper pipes?

The homes of the upper classes always turn into the homes of the poor. Those lawyer foyers will turn into a huge cold entryway into a warren of tiny apartments.

The smart set will be moving back into the inner-ring suburbs that used to be serviced by the streetcar. They will be much easier to access by mass transit and the houses will be renovated for energy efficiency. The status symbol will be the solar hot water system on the roof, instead of the SUV.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'W')hat you say is technically true but I believe the *cause* of much of the problems has nothing to do with the "city" per say but because all the middle class people moved out.

[cube]

To: MarkJ
This is the cube scenario:
I think the fastest way to bring suburbia to a screeching halt is unemployment. Almost every family is dual income these days. If 1 spouse losses their job (no amount of clever budget cutting) can makes things work if it literally takes 1 income just to pay the full home mortgage.
This is why I don't buy the "energy efficiency" will save suburbia argument. No amount of energy efficiency can mitigate the above scenario. Aside declaring bankruptcy and giving up the house, which some people will do, the only option left would be to literally turn the house into a mini-apartment and start renting rooms out. This is how I see suburbia slowly contracting.

The most rent-able homes will be near job centers aka urban core. The ones to far away will be abandoned, the owner will declare bankruptcy, the bank that funded the loan will go under, and as what Revi said: the copper pipe thieves will finish the rest.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')With $4 gas suburbia is nothing more than a VERY expensive living arrangement. Just wait till gas hits $10 and it will no longer be just expensive but financially impossible.

[cube]

To: mos6507
read my previous post.
the cube scenario
and there's your reply.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')The most rent-able homes will be near job centers aka urban core. The ones to far away will be abandoned, the owner will declare bankruptcy, the bank that funded the loan will go under, and as what Revi said: the copper pipe thieves will finish the rest.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '.')..
Sometimes people get too fixated on the negativity or wish fulfilment.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'T')o: MarkJ
This is the cube scenario:
I think the fastest way to bring suburbia to a screeching halt is unemployment. Almost every family is dual income these days. If 1 spouse losses their job (no amount of clever budget cutting) can makes things work if it literally takes 1 income just to pay the full home mortgage.
This is why I don't buy the "energy efficiency" will save suburbia argument. No amount of energy efficiency can mitigate the above scenario. Aside declaring bankruptcy and giving up the house, which some people will do, the only option left would be to literally turn the house into a mini-apartment and start renting rooms out. This is how I see suburbia slowly contracting.

The most rent-able homes will be near job centers aka urban core. The ones to far away will be abandoned, the owner will declare bankruptcy, the bank that funded the loan will go under, and as what Revi said: the copper pipe thieves will finish the rest.

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '
')With $4 gas suburbia is nothing more than a VERY expensive living arrangement. Just wait till gas hits $10 and it will no longer be just expensive but financially impossible.

[joelcolorado]

Simple solution.

IF every family drove a Malibu which gets 33 mpg, we would delay the crash. Doubling the mileage from what is going on today, would save us. BUT ppl are so selfish

My niece has one child and says she must have an SUV for the childs safety. WHAT THE HELL>

[ki11ercane]

<sarcasm>

Several ways to reduce oil usage.

1. Don't eat.
2. Don't do, go, buy, etc. anything that has do to with the current energy age we are in. (post coal)
3. Kill yourself.

</sarcasm>

Sorry, I just had to say it. I know those nice EV car pictures are pretty, but that's just Hysterical Applause to try to convince people that everything will be ok and we can continue to live the life we are living now. You still need "the black stuff" to mine the metal and raw materials, built the factories to produce the product, ship it to your driveway, and produce the electricity to run it, or produce the raw and finished materials to produce the electricity to run it. No matter what, it all revolves around oil/ng/coal or alternatives that rely on the first three to exist. (solar, wind, nuclear)

Sorry everyone, but no matter what direction you're pointing in, you're still surrounded by an ocean of dead end solutions. When it was an issue 30 years ago, alternative solutions <insert them all here> needed to be considered and implemented WHILE we were consuming so much non-renewable energy so when it became an issue TODAY we'd be ready for them. At this point it's too late. A soft landing is not going to happen.

Just my 2 barrels worth.